Hardware and software need to be ported into iPadOS

ozon

@D-One wrote:

if you really support the latter then you would also support this OP about iPadOS compatibility, no?

Yes, I do! I actually loved to use iMaschine on the iPhone during commute and on iPad during vacation as an idea scratch pad. Unfortunately, iMaschine became a bit of a second class citizen.

I am in no way against supporting iOS (or any other platform). But turning towards an exclusive iOS centered approach (which is what OP suggests) would be an exceptionally bad decision. For a large part of the existing user base and for NI eventually (at the Rosetta3 event).

Or do you think M+ was ready for release when it came out?

No. But it was already way better than the MPC Live a year after that came out. Let’s put it this way: I had very low expectations and wanted to support the concept.

they have been prioritizing HW control since the start, mouse dependant features were always avoided like the plague semi-officially unless there's no other practical choice

That’s not true IMO. On one hand, the M+ highlights how many features or aspects are not designed with the controller in mind. On the other hand, after using the M+ exclusively for a couple of weeks you’ll suddenly realize that some functions are not accessible the same way when tethered as controller. I even start to miss the ability to rename objects from the controller. I have to reach for the mouse and keyboard more often than desirable.

touch could be used where it makes sense like selecting notes, drawing automation, etc

Maybe the (bad?) implementation on the MPC finally ruined my enthusiasm for touch input, but after been told about touch being the future way to control devices with gestures for the last twenty years, the current status of technology is underwhelming and definitely not working as an all around solution.

nightjar

ozon said: "I am in no way against supporting iOS (or any other platform). But turning towards an exclusive iOS centered approach (which is what OP suggests) would be an exceptionally bad decision. For a large part of the existing user base and for NI eventually (at the Rosetta3 event)."

OP (me) did not state that iOS would be an exclusive approach, and to correct a bit more... I did not even suggest iOS as an option, but rather iPadOS.

And I see this iPadOS implementation for "portable production" working alongside a macOS version in a new NI music-making ecosystem.

Kubrak

OK, replace iOS by iPadOS in quote by Ozon. ;-) And try again.

You still did not answer my question. Write your estimate, how many users would NI had on iPad and how many they would be willing pay. And how much would cost development of SW and HW for iPad. And how much of gear made specificaly for iPad would be sold.

Look at Maschine Jam, D2, S5. Great gear, but probably not very much profitable. So, production has been terminated and there is not MK2 replacement.

Fabio Barbon

ozon said:

On the other hand, after using the M+ exclusively for a couple of weeks you’ll suddenly realize that some functions are not accessible the same way when tethered as controller. I even start to miss the ability to rename objects from the controller. I have to reach for the mouse and keyboard more often than desirable.

That's very interesting, and could suggest that NI is pivoting to a "HW company that also develops the accompanying SW" more than the other way around. This can be very rewarding (Apple) but also very dangerous (see Microsoft epic failure with Windows Phone or recent ROLI bankrupt despite massive investor feedings during all its 7 years of life).

Exceptional quality could be the key of success here (that neither ROLI products nor Windows Phone had it). The issue IMO is that quality (I mean Quality as in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig) requires exceptionally solid constant tenacy and very few companies have the luck of being led by a Steve Jobs (whose inertial force is still driving its Company ten years after his death despite the (relative) mediocrity of his successors)

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/10362#Comment_10362

A better product with an appeal to a wider audience, with more room to grow. That's the goal and gamble. It comes down to execution, timing and marketing to yield the answers.

Kubrak

There must be an estimate to even start thinking about it. If one does not want to gamble.

So, what is your guess of those business vital figures?

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/10381#Comment_10381

Anything desired to be more can be more. Anything desired to be less can be less. The degree depends on execution, timing and marketing. The only known thing is that currently NI does not offer anything that is growing a larger market in any significant way. Doing more of the same will not improve the situation.

Mutis

In fact developing for iPad can improve estructural cost instead increase them as @kubrak tries to make anyone believe.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/mac_catalyst/creating_a_mac_version_of_your_ipad_app

Let’s look at traktor latest statement from Pedram …

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/837/messages-from-traktor

NI is probably doing that iPadintoMac now TDj2 development seems clearly halted meanwhile “codebase is being merged”. Traktor Pro 4 will be Traktor Pro 3 codebase ported into new M1 compatible codebase mixed with Traktor Dj2… like Sdj was built over Itch 2 ashes… the good news are it could be Universal app (but there will be a version beyond Rosetta not compatible with macIntels probably). Windows should be covered don’t worry but certain features will heat up the laptop carrying it until development tools implement alternative APIs like realtime spleeter stems (BionicAI chip based) due these should be implemented by bruteforce at windows (or using gpu and what does it means) and iPads will get these features before windows machines or Traktor will be even more behind its competetion than it’s now. That’s why Apple ditches technologies and embrace the future (even sometimes pisses lots of users of course). Apple doesn’t want retrocompatibility at all costs, only if that doesn’t means “stagnation”. This haven’t nothing in common to use “old i5 chips to lie about performance”… Apple use only bulletproof cpus by their standard (heat, power, wattage, best performance related to that) and tunes the OS to make it work equally with upgraded-from-phone M1 chip alongisde Intel i7 so users don’t get less performance but more.

It’s called strategy and forward thinking but you can’t understand it yet and it’s ok but almost understand why Apple is the leading in this field (music creation) forcing brands to get their technologies and why Apple is so popular from users POV (and stop trying to sell more messages as more users… you discussed this almost with 5 different people in this tread btw)

So, we got from “NI is aware of AS (but it’s not a priority)” to “It’s a priority” into “we are merging databases”… NI wasn’t aware but iZotope was.

Now the dicussion isn’t if SW/HW should be ported into iPad. SW/HW is being ported into M1 which by definition will be compatible with future iDevices (iPhones too). It’s just a matter of perspective (and time).

The question is “how it will be done” and “what does it means for windows and standalone hardware”. My bet is “things will be more or less like they were” and NI will keep designing things more conservative (and crossplatform) than iPad users will want but almost windows users will get support even x86 platform future is a mistery for prosumers (even with new Ryzen) due OS (windows, linux or any other entering the battleground).

I will love to see a hardware brand developing a macOS/iPadOS alternative… something like Haiku (beOS) mixed with elkOS… but even Samsung, Xiaomi and Nvidia could bring a solution. The problem is fragmentation as Android teach the world.

Fanboy? Nah… I’m more into standalone as days gone but the sad true is “I can get a cheaper iPhone SE (2015) for less than a raspi+screen+audio injector…) due chip shortage and I have ready apps to make music without needing to do nothing (not balena etcher, not terminal, not alsa/jack, not nothing). Just plug and play and I can add a Launchpad/Apc40/Push or audio interfaces etc etc etc and it works. Ask Serato users about Rane SL hardware non-class compliant (and even some) being discontinnued… iDevice have its own issues of course but these are more than reliable and in the future maybe the iDevices will run so-called “desktop apps” like now macs can run iOS/iPad apps… but until then I can run DVS and Rane one at my old iPhone but I can’t use S4mk3 properly on M1 (and also seems some issues on windows due continuous security changes AFAIK)

Present moment is “Future proving the past” and M+ should had been rebrainded before release due it was planned be released 2 years before it was. Probably the rumoured Push+ if was real, got cancelled by that (and look how Ableton got M1 support…) so as I say too often…

Time will tell, we will see.

nightjar

Hmmmm.. here is a a very recent snapshot of global premium smartphone sales... I'd suspect a global snapshot of premium tablet sales would be even more in Apple's favor.

Here's a link:

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-premium-smartphone-market-2021/

Kubrak

And who is interested in premium phones or tablets? Most population does not have such a premium. And it is sort of upside down to define premium by price. No wonder, that Apple's overpriced products have important marketshare if premium is defined by price.

iPhone marketshare is something like 15-17%.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/216459/global-market-share-of-apple-iphone/

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/10414#Comment_10414

Not to sound snobby, but NI already has a premium reputation... not over-the-top extreme, but rather a demographic that can more readily afford some less essential things in life.

Apple products reach a similar demographic.

And this new NI/iZotope ecosystem could easily offer entry-level tiers to reach more users with less disposable income.

Kubrak

NI, premium? Look at Eventide gear. Even 20+ years's old Eclipse still sells over 2k US$ secondhand. And H9000? Close to 7k US$ new. But there is also "poor man's" one, H9000R just for acceptable 5k US$. ;-)

I guess they should port it to iPad. Would be real sonic feat.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kubrak

You are probably right about NI brand common knowledge. Friend of mine who uses Traktor told me she uses Native Instruments audio interface. And I was puzzled. Texas Instruments now makes audio interfaces?

I had no idea that something like Native Instruments exists, but I knew Texas Instruments for years. So my mind converted Native to Texas to keep things in order.

nightjar

From the same brand new market report: