Hardware and software need to be ported into iPadOS
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MS Surface Pro is Win tablet. One may add Pen and keyboard, if desires... IMHO, pen is needed to work flawlessly with any Win application.
I have secondhand Surface Pro 7 (i5 10th gen 4C/8T, 16GB, 256GB) and it runs Traktor and Maschine quite fine. And it is passively cooled. No problem to install almost any Win app, and connect probably any NI HW. Maybe not some very old ones, haven't tried.
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Not a standard (market-wise) in your country… I can agree on that. Very much standard in mine.
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Attack of the killer touchscreens!
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A "standard" as in who to follow, either NI or Apple as the OG post meant then Apple is def the standard, regardless of proprietary stuff or how much one might dislike Apple they constantly do things others follow in it's industry, that's unquestionable... It doesn't necessarily mean the whole music-making industry is shifting to tablets anytime soon tho... Apple also follows its top competitors too in some aspects, so works both ways.
Maschine was the first successful tethered groove box, so credit there but it didn't become a trend t all, DAW controllers did. Stems flopped badly, Sounds.com flopped badly, Traktor lost a ton of its userbase and is no longer a standard in DJing and I am willing to bet Maschine has also been losing active users a lot for the last 6 years or so. KK-S was the first non-fluff (afaik) keyboard with a light guide so credit there... after that, I can't think of anything else NI did first that others followed.
Microsoft just released Voltera, what does it remind you of?
It's a Developer Kit for Win Arm, released after the OS is already out there, Apple did it with a Mac Mini DTK before the OS release, years ago altho this might not be a fair comparison since Win Arm is an alternative, not a full-blown transition but it still looks like following Apple. Even Win11 UI looks Mac'ish, I'm sure both companies copy/follow each other tho... So examples that favor either side can always be presented.
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This is third or so trial of MS to switch Win market from x86 to ARM, not first.
Beside that, MS sells for years MS Surface based on ARM.... I have MS Surface with i5 passively cooled and see absolutely no reason to use ARM. And if MS have used AMD CPU, things would be even better....
But even with i5 I may use Traktor (15% CPU load) and Maschine. The both, Traktor and Maschine are usable even without controllers. MS Pen works quite OK and I am about testing MS Surface Dial which should do things even better.
Concerning "standard" standard is not something what others follow... Instead it is what others do exactly same. Like USB, DDR, PCI, firewire, ASIO, VST, MIDI, XLR, Jack, HDMI, AES, SPDIF, C/C++, JAVA, x86, ARM, .....
Apple generally avoids standards and chooses its own technologies. The only standard Apple has brought to public is IMHO Firewire. Maybe I ommited something....
No question, that Apple has brought many ideas and has formed many trends. And still is doing it. But has brought very few standards.
@Maciej Repetowski Apple may has impotrant marketshare in some countries.... But worldwide it is minority and by no means standard.
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@Kubrak said:
Concerning "standard" standard is not something what others follow... Instead it is what others do exactly the same. Like USB, DDR, PCI, firewire, ASIO, VST, MIDI, XLR, Jack, HDMI, AES, SPDIF, C/C++, JAVA, x86, ARM, .....
🤔 What's the difference between "following" and "doing the same" ?? 🤷♂️
In tech "a standard" usually means what you're saying, sure, 'Widely adopted technology' but it can also mean many other things, like a point of comparison, that's what he meant... He literally said, "Apple is the standard to follow not NI". A company's choices can be a standard to follow just like a role model person can.
Admittedly NI VS Apple it's a bit of an awkward comparison but still valid when you believe an iPad version of Maschine is a better direction than an intel Standalone.
I can for example say: NI is the standard when it comes to multi-sample instruments because they are, perfectly legit statement.
Apple generally avoids standards and chooses its own technologies. The only standard Apple has brought to public is IMHO Firewire. Maybe I ommited something....
IDK why you keep repeating that but sure... They do, that's common knowledge but they also create/push non-standards so they do become standards, not always tho, sometimes, just like all other multi-billion $ companies... Microsoft, Google, Meta, etc, they fail.
ProRes is a major video standard, USB-A, OpenCL and afaik Apple was the one who pushed windowed computer GUI's instead of sticking with text interfaces, xerox was the first but certainly didn't have the capability to spread adoption, it influenced every single computer in people's homes today, it was widely adopted thus: 'a standard'.
They also created a standard for how modern phone should be, and that's in billions of people's pockets today... before that, we were rocking blackberries and flip-phones. There's a ton more, here's a Reddit thread which afaik is not even complete:
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/qffbgp/which_standards_have_originated_from_within_apple/
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Does any of this matter?
Maschine would be great on a tablet, Maschine is being ported to M1, which is very close to porting to iOS, iOS tablets have way more market share than Windows tablets.
No standards, no discussion, basic math, if it were to be ported to work with a touch device, it will be iPads.
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@Flexi said:
Does any of this matter?
No. Good point. Tech conversations always get derailed, it's the nature of the interwebz.
Maschine would be great on a tablet, Maschine is being ported to M1, which is very close to porting to iOS, iOS tablets have way more market share than Windows tablets.
At least a companion app, like Jam but on a tablet would be great.
Not so sure it's that close tbh, iOS / iPadOS apps can run on MacOS M1 if devs go thru the trouble because they use the same framework and dependencies but the fact is that is not happening often and when it does its for really simple apps that look like a webpage; so that must be a reality 1st, then we dream of desktop apps running on the mobile OS's... that should take a while if it's even possible.
As I understand for it work both ways it can't be a port, it has to be built entirely from scratch using apples frameworks, SDK, etc... (afaik).
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What's the difference between "following" and "doing the same" ??
Well, one may sing cover version of a song as precisely, as possible. Or one may create its own song using style that someone brought. Say, for example, rap. Someone has brought it to the world and many follow it in their own way.
Maschine would be great on a tablet, Maschine is being ported to M1, which is very close to porting to iOS, iOS tablets have way more market share than Windows tablets.
No standards, no discussion, basic math, if it were to be ported to work with a touch device, it will be iPads.
Maybe that iPad has bigger marketshare than Win tablets. I am not sure, it might be like that. Maschine already works with touch devices for years, on Win..... Without any effort from NI. Microsoft has done the job. Apple should get inspired by success of MS. If MS can do it, Apple should be able as well. Beside that, MS has something like Rosetta for years integrated in Win (maybe inferior to Apple ones, do not know...) and it will stay there for many more years, it is not temporary transition tool, like in case of Apple. One may choose whether to utilize ARM Win tablet/PC or x86, noone is forced either side.
I would not expect NI to take the hassle of porting their SW to iPadOS. It can hardly pay back and also one may expect that Apple one day hopefully merges OSes for iPad and Mac, so it would be waste of energy... Apple users should push on Apple to unify systems, not pussing on SW developers to develop for artifically segmented OSses...
ProRes is a major video standard, USB-A, OpenCL and afaik Apple was the one who pushed windowed computer GUI's instead of sticking with text interfaces, xerox was the first but certainly didn't have the capability to spread adoption, it influenced every single computer in people's homes today, it was widely adopted thus: 'a standard'.
I admit, that I am not very knowledgable in videocodecs, but ProRes seems to be just one of many, I would not call it standard, definitely it is not widespread standard... For example not easily used on Win. Why use ProRes if one may use tens of other codecs. But OK, ProRes is sort of standard in Mac world.
USB-A - It has not been developed/brought by Apple by any means. It was developed by Compaq, DEC, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, and Nortel.
OpenCL - Apple came with idea and registered that trademark, but development and definition of standard has been done by AMD, IBM, Intel and nVidia, Apple did not contribute.
GUI - Yes, it has been developed by Xerox. And by the time used by many companies. Apple was just one of early adopters, beside Atari, Amiga, ... and later on IBM, MS, UNIX/LINUX. I would also note that crucial part of GUI, the mouse, has been also developed by Xerox. By no question current concept of GUI is based on solid foundations made by XEROX.
So still, the only standard that Apple originated (together with other companies) seems to be Firewire.
Apple is good in adopting others ideas and technologies and making them widespread and also in defining trends. But only seldomly brings technologies (technological standards) for use by others... It more receives and uses than shares with others.
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No not really, if you are porting for M1, the differences are not that large, just the TUI, and if we remember back a few years a lot of NI software had updates specifically for touch, nothing came of it, but TUI must be near or close to being in place in the software.
But yeah, TUI is the major difference between MacOS and iOS, I know that sounds incredibly simple, but iOS TUI does come with some standards that need to be adhered to, so it isn't just hit that flag on compile (It is, but it wont work well with TUI)
The bigger factor is porting the driver to driverkit, that is a whole new thing and NI would have to be pioneers in that to get it going, NI have not been pioneers for a very long time, so likelyhood is not much.
EDIT* Oh yeah, some incredibly strange UI sizes and notches and such too, that would have to be factored in and is another difference between MacOS iOS.
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ProRes is standard, there are very few edit codecs that are usable and for a long time it was ProRes on Mac and DNxHD on Mac/Windows, they where the only two usable codecs for editing, Blackmagic really changed levels with that though and made BMRAW an actual usable RAW edit codec in Resolve.
But yeah ProRes was very much a standard for a long time, Blackmagic even built it in to its cameras for a while (Not sure if they still do, because of how good BMRAW is)
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ProRes is/was "standard" on Mac. And beside that DNxHD on the both Mac and Win.
ProRes is proprietary format used mainly by Apple. Proprietary format may be widespread, but it is miles far from being standard.
I agree with you, that it is unlikely NI will port its HW and SW to iPad.
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Logic coming to iPad Pro might have recently gotten some key talent:
Universal Audio’s Vice President of Technology and Chief Architect, Dave Tremblay, has moved to Apple as Senior Manager - Audio Systems.
Dave Tremblay, was until recently responsible for leading Platform and Research projects, in addition to general oversight of how Universal Audio designed and built products. He had been with the company for nearly a decade, and during this time some of the most innovative hardware and software products were created by Universal Audio.
Previous to his time at UA, he was at Avid responsible for plugin architecture where he headed up the development and transition to AAX. As the architect of AAX, Avid's audio plug-in platform, he was responsible for the design and implementation of the platform as well as the porting of all Avid's plug-in portfolio. In that capacity, he functioned as a technical lead for three development teams in addition to writing a lot of code. He was also one of the founding team at audio technology company Sonoma Wire Works.
Dave is not only smart, but also a really great guy. No details are given as to the work he will be doing at Apple, however his new title is Senior Manager - Audio Systems. This could cover a number of areas for Apple, including hardware and software.
Given the challenge Univeral Audio has to re-engineer a more modern solution to their current SHARC based audio interfaces, the loss of someone like Dave Tremblay must be disappointing for them. They have made some transitions into non-DSP audio interfaces and untethered plug-ins with their SPARK offer, however neither are alternatives to the flagship products that gave UAD the edge and reputation in the past.
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Come on NI, give us IpadOS compatibility! Or at least Midi Learn for M+..
Pretty please
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Wouldn't it be better if Apple unifies iPadOS and MacOS? No need for artificial product segmentation....
But it is for sure much better if customer buys the both, iPad and Mac notebook.
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