Hardware and software need to be ported into iPadOS

nightjar

It looks to me that the current generation of NI controller products are on a wrong path.

They made sense when they were conceptualized... trying to let creators be less dependent on computer screens, computer keyboard/mouse, and even the computer itself in the case of Maschine +.

However, the rapid evolution of efficient processing power in Apple Silicon, coupled with iOS/iPadOS has changed the landscape far too much.

NI needs to re-conceive how they fit into this reality.

All software assets that NI has should be ported into iPadOS as soon as possible. And an elegant UX for this software should be the most important goal.

Then the hardware controllers that NI would make would be optimized in service to this iPadOS environment... providing the very best performance controls.

Any screen options on one of these future NI hardware products would be more akin to Apple CarPlay rather than an embedded system.

Kubrak

No more Apple terror, please!!!!

Perpetual problems with compatibilty... And Apple Silicon on top.... That is just enought. Most of the users are on Win, most of tablets and phones are Android. NI should go Win & Android path. Not iOS/iPadOS Apple Silicon path. ;-)

Matt_NI

@nightjar It sounds like you have the issues with all our products at this point 😅

I edited your title because it wasn't super descriptive of what you're bringing up here and a bit clickbaity imo. Please let's avoid that 🙌

nightjar

No.. I love NI products and use them successfully in their current form.

And I also look forward to using them just as happily for the next 20 years.

I believe things are at a critical pivot point to how music will created in these next 2 decades and a rapid change is needed to get with the flow.

Matt_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/9649#Comment_9649

You are right and I think these are genuinely the most interesting discussions we could have here. It's interesting though because there seems to be quite polarizing views on how products should go towards Mac or Win application but also diverging perspectives for Mac users when it comes to iOS / iPadOS applications.

Curious to hear a little bit more about the why you'd think iOS / iPadOS is the way to go. I understand the aspect regarding the progress made with Silicon but how do you see this go forward?

nightjar

The current situation of creating in the iPadOS is very limited... I MUCH prefer creating with software tools designed for a computer OS with trackpad/keyboard, supplemented with a MIDI controller for "music" keyboard and other "performance" music controllers.

BUT.. with iPads now gaining the M1 processor, and with the increased convergence of macOS + iPadOS with technologies like Universal Control.. I can envision a much streamlined, powerful and deceptively "simple" music creation system emerging in the next 2-3 years.

Getting the "friction" out of music creation has been my quest for decades.

Matt_NI

I've heard the term "frictionless" many times across the industry and it does seem to be a lifelong quest.

Just so I get this right but also for others to jump in (especially if they aren't too familiar with the terminology), what does that system look like to you? Do you see creators making everything on iPad for instance or having more connectivity between the two environments?

I feel like these ideas were already there and still are but nothing seems to really pick up. I don't know if the status would very different in 2 - 3 years, especially if desktop technology becomes faster and cheaper.

nightjar

I think sufficient processing power and internal storage (plus fast online supplement) will reach a turning point in affordability in about 3 years.

When that happens, "laptop" music creators will start shifting over at a rapid pace. This portable & powerful iPad will be paired up with whatever input method you need for the task at hand.

And hopefully, NI will be offering a premium brand of very high quality "music performance controllers" to use in this environment. And NI will have a premium brand of content to use within this environment using the latest technologies that take full advantage of machine learning to assist the music creator.

And this music creation environment will appeal to forward-thinking music creators of ALL genres.

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Matt_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/9671#Comment_9671

I could be wrong but it seems that's exactly what this thread was created for, blue sky thinking and not necessarily a reflection on how the development is going.

Kubrak

@nightjar Yes, phones and tablets will become stronger and stronger. And so will computers.... Plugins will adapt and develop along with possibilities of medium to lower hi-end strong PC/Mac. Currently it may be 8C/16T at 4 GHz. And in three years 12-16C/24-32T at 4.5 GHz.

Tablets will always lag behind PCs/Macs by a great deal. You cannot cheat physics.

And use of AI HW support? Maybe, if it will be implemented in x86 platform and it will be sort of simillar to that on AS or some kind of SW wrapper will be available. In the best case ISO standard or industrial standard of leading companies.

D-One

Don't hold your breath on that, better to be realistic... Full native M1 support is already proving to be very challenging and it's been 2 years, NI has 1 million products to manage, imagine if they also had a million mobile versions to manage.

You're better off waiting for Apple to add desktop apps support in a future release of iPadOS in a couple of years, which should happen since they use the same chips, even the iPad Air has an M1 now... then a few years later if that all works out maybe NI and similar companies get on board. Optimistically that might be all be a thing in.... 2029.🤷‍♂️

For now, the smart move seems to be to wait, otherwise by the time NI finished porting apps to iPadOS MacOS will already probably be working on iPads, or something along those lines.

Mutis

I will put the text due maybe the image isn’t alloweed in the new forum rules (from what I remember)

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

First of all I will point one fallacy done in the previous comments (without pointing towards anybody directly because isn’t personal) to make my point.

https://youtu.be/eGGHWeEJLNI

Neural AI mixing arrived first to iPad (first mobile device with that Bionic chip was in fact iPhone X) and professionals are using these. Another example…

https://youtu.be/jWT7Mik8WOg

So M1 chip grow over iPad chip. Laprop/desktop will be powerfull due Apple can fit fan and bigger batteries so the machine can improve performance adding wattage… but from efficiency, not the opposite.

Macbook M1 fanless is the powerless and the most powerful at the same time if you look it from wattage and software available (such Logic).

About “frictionless” (aside the previous videos showing true professionals using actual tools avaliable first in Apple Silicon chips due its technology and APIs related to them…) what about Ableton Link and Ableton export?

https://youtu.be/pk78uJCLd80

Frictionless is hit Ableton export on my apps and then Airdrop sharing so I have my file ready to load it in Ableton in just two easy steps. I will love to use NI controllers with those apps with midi support (others directly are designed to work with multitouch and only users who need haptic response will be against them) but sadly no class compliant midi devices. The Apple Car metaphor someone pointed will be amazing but I’m not sure if Apple allows that from iOS/iPadOS.

https://youtu.be/E5gKYx3EzW0

Frictionless is a clock working for everyone. Even Traktor&Maschine needed to add it after years users asking for some way to make them work together and no response from NI. Thankfully that makes both more useful since there are tons of apps supporting Ableton link. Btw it also arrived first to apps than any other desktop app aside Ableton of course but now is a new defacto standard. IDK if Android can handle it or neither as audio over the last decade (it seems finally getting some serious apps) but why Android will never be iOS for musicians is strongly documented. Just ask developers themselves or study the platform limitations.

Finally, iPad apps are supported by M1 macs but it’s up to the developer working the UI side and most of these have no sense without a touch interface. They are arriving slowly but Apple has grow a very strong developer garden meanwhile Microsoft failed badly with their ARM surface RT.

I tried over some time ago to point what some others are starting to see by themselves (like new mac studio coming before any Ryzen true competition and without entering into the software OS discussion… but it handles 17 8k streams inside Final Cut meanwhile iPad Pro M1 handles 4 of these streams afair…) It’s not future, it’s present.

So my question about Schoppenhauer quote at the beggining… where are you? First, second or third stage? Because if Apple mobile platform reveals finally as true professional (or most profitable market segment which in the end it’s what business pursue) in those 5 years some pointed… should NI could have been working on that the last decade?

https://youtu.be/GXWscSBosSA

DjPlayer had dvs on iPad 1st generation. Ten years ago.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LaCejdOV2WY

https://djworx.com/dvs-through-an-ipad-dj-player/

Food for thought.

nightjar

NI does not have the luxury of waiting.

To be successful, you need to skate where the puck is going. There is enough evidence now to show the trajectory of where things are heading..... and heading fast.

By adopting some "best practices" now.. developing for MacOS and iPadOS can be very much a shared effort.

None of this is a new concept.. but what has changed is the hard evidence of what Apple Silicon can do.

And it's not just AS itself, it is the entire framework that Apple has been crafting around it.

Will future desktops be even more powerful? Yes.. but that power will be unneeded by 99% of music creators.

Mobile devices in a few short years will easily compete with current desktops for the purpose of creating music.

Up to now, it's been an empty promise... but the technology is now ripe and NI needs to hustle to be part of this change.

Kubrak

@D-One wrote:

You're better off waiting for Apple to add desktop apps support in a future release of iPadOS in a couple of years, which should happen since they use the same chips, even the iPad Air has an M1 now... then a few years later if that all works out maybe NI and similar companies get on board. Optimistically that might be all be a thing in.... 2029.

In 2029, there will be Rosetta 3 and porting all the SW to yet another CPU. In the best case back to x86. ;-)

@nightjar wrote:

Mobile devices in a few short years will easily compete with current desktops for the purpose of creating music.

Mobile devices are able to compete with ten years old desktops. So no problem to use ten years old plugins....

ozon

Only after everything is available on mobile devices with touch screen control exclusively, people will realize that this was a bad move in the first place.