Will there be a version 2 update to Maschine+ or only a version 3 upgrade?

MaikR

As this discussion is running for a while now, I really would like to know if NI will (also) release the promised update for M+ version 2 instead of (just) version 3 of Maschine SW?

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/21231/more-information-on-future-updates-m

Why I’m asking? Simply because we shouldn’t be forced to upgrade to Maschine 3.0 to get the known bugs fixed.

From the ‘previous’ change log, so the update to the M+ that still has to be released: 

The changelog of the currently in test M+ update includes:

This Maschine Plus update contains the Maschine 2.18.2 App version

You should now be able to adjust sample rate and buffer size directly on Maschine Plus

New kernel version (5.15), which should fix the issues we have seen in the past with some USB Audio class compliant interfaces

Replaced the proprietary texfat driver from Tuxera with the open source exfat driver now available in the kernel

Massive has been updated to v1.6.0

So, will we still get this update? Or even better, to version 2.18.4, as that update was released a couple of weeks after the change log was posted.

[EDIT] As the original link now points to Maschine 3.0 updates, I’ve added this screenshot:

MaikR

Well, as this question remains unanswered (also within the larger M+ updates topic) I think it’s fair to state that the people within Native Instruments are allowed to break promises with their customers.

A forced and paid upgrade to version 3 to get old bugs fixed (and definitely except some new ones) seems to be an excepted way of working nowadays. Too much focus on all new and shiny bells and whistles.

But, as a customer of those previous bells and whistles I’m really feeling betrayed. So there’s one promise I will make: if the ‘final 2.0 update’ for M+ is not released as promised, then I will vote with my ’user voice’ and my money. No more NI products. Not even a sample pack. Absolutely nothing.

ozon

This is really a necessity for all those customers who for some reason do not want or are not able (as in "my computer is too old to run the minimal requirement OS") to upgrade to 3.0 — when it finally arrives on the M+.

Also, we've been now waiting for almost a full year to get feature parity (and therefore full Project compatibility) between the M+ standalone and Maschine desktop. Also related is the feature parity of Massive and Reaktor as it seems to be problematic for some users to get presets and ensembles created on the desktop to run on the M+.

@tetsuneko might have some more information on these issues.

tetsuneko

All I know is, as long as version numbers 1:1 match between desktop and standalone, maximum compatibility state exists. There are slight variations in bugs across versions, but yeh

MaikR

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/189347#Comment_189347

If that’s the case then a ‘final update’ to bring M+ op to par with 2.18.4 (or later) shouldn’t be any different from an update to 2.18.2 👍🏻

So can anyone from the NI team clarify things for us please? @Matthew_NI @Kai_NI @Simon_NI what about this delayed but planned update for M+, is it still (first) to be released?

tetsuneko

I think the next M+ OS update will be 3.0 compatible. It is not certain M+ will ever get 2.18 compatibility, and anyways, 2.18 broke some things which worked in 2.17, which also broke some things which worked in 2.16 and so on..

MaikR

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/190067#Comment_190067

Yes, I know these are your expectations. But since we’re waiting for so long for compatibility and bug fixes (core), I would like to see the ‘final 2.0 update’. It was promised multiple times, and as 3.0 is ‘totally new’ my expectations are, that we will have multiple minors there, too. So every time the M+ will be one (or more) steps behind. So I would like to have a stabilized version 2 of the software integration.

Besides that, version 3.0 is a paid upgrade. And yes, it’s fairly cheap, but I don’t want to pay to start all over again. As long as version 3 of Maschine Plus isn’t fully stable, I want to stay on version 2… but without the known bugs, including the USB interface class compliancy.

MaikR

@Simon_NI (or team members) if it’s a clear NO, then that’s an answer, too.

We all know that a rollback from an incomplete or unstable new version 3 could be very problematic (if not impossible). So I would really like to know, will M+ still get the ‘final 2.0 update’?

djadidai

I have 2.17.4 on my M1 mac and in my M+. Running 3.0 also on my laptop. If they don’t make a 2.18 update to the M+, I’ll keep the 2.17.4 on the M+ and laptop for as long as it goes. Who knows, maybe 3,0 works even better and more processor efficient than 2.17. In that case I’ll upgrade the M+ too. Well just have to see. But certainly I agree that M+ owners deserve and are entitled to a last improvement update with some bug fixes and such to 2,18.4.

MaikR

Well, as this question remains unanswered (also within the larger M+ updates topic) I think it’s fair to state that the people within Native Instruments are allowed to break promises with their customers.

A forced and paid upgrade to version 3 to get old bugs fixed (and definitely except some new ones) seems to be an excepted way of working nowadays. Too much focus on all new and shiny bells and whistles.

But, as a customer of those previous bells and whistles I’m really feeling betrayed. So there’s one promise I will make: if the ‘final 2.0 update’ for M+ is not released as promised, then I will vote with my ’user voice’ and my money. No more NI products. Not even a sample pack. Absolutely nothing.

djadidai

and now my issue is that I need sonoma to run the latest Logic Pro update, and 2.17 is only supported up to Ventura, and 2.18 from sonoma, and my M+ is on 2.17…. Love this :)

ozon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/194568#Comment_194568

Yep, those are the real issues some of us face, which are constantly denied by a few users here, and totally neglected by NI.

PS: I just checked the release notes, and it seems that 2.18 didn’t introduce any new project related features. Maybe 2.18 project files can be read by the M+ on 2.17?

djadidai

worth trying to see what happens. Transferring to desktop is probably no problem, but transferring back to M+ could be…

MaikR

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/194568#Comment_194568

And this is exactly why I keep nagging about the promised update. Multiple people have multiple different workflows. They all dependent on one or multiple vendors. The way NI behaves in this ecosystem is pure arrogance, leaving customers in the dust.

Not only does it take ages for them to update their software (and drivers) to the final releases of Operating Systems, they are also very unreliable when it comes to keeping their promises.

M+ should have been on 2.17 or 2.18 within a couple of days (or weeks) after the release of the dekstop SW. It’s a promise they’ve made to the buyers of an unfinished product.

Same goes for releasing a solution to the so-called class compliant USB interface. It’s even on their product website: more to come. But it’s just a handful of audio interfaces that actually do work.

Again, I’m not asking for new features, but a reliable product that simply works like how it was advertised.

The Chief also promised to communicate more with the community. Well, another promise they didn’t keep. He doesn’t respond to threads or questions at all. And if there’s one thing I do know about management and leadership, then it’s the effect of exemplary behavior. As long as he doesn’t do better, then this is the new NI… and therefore no ‘new’ products for me.

It’s almost a fu.. year since his last big promises for Maschine Plus.
Now look what we did get and where we’re at. Nothing but some promises.

And yes, I’m having a lot fun being creative with my Elektron boxes, Moog synths, even the Behringer ’low budget’ gear, the SP-404mk2 shortcut walhalla, etc..

I also did spend some money during BF, at Ableton’s shop for a controller-only version of Push 3 replacing my current, still mint Push 2. Simply because Ableton is one of those companies that does what it promises… developing and adding new features, even for older controllers. The only reason I was considering a version 3 is the integrated midi and audio interface with ADAT and CV outputs. And, knowing the Push 3 will be supported for years to come, made me decide to grab the deal.

djadidai

yeah, I understand the frustration. Heck, I don’t even know why the worlds needs a new OS every year, how big of a difference is it really? And why not just keep making it updates instead of rebranding every year.

MaikR

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/195961#Comment_195961

Same here, that’s also why I’m still on the previous MacOS and iOS / ipadOS.

On the other hand, as changes are relatively small and the Betas were out there for quite some time, it’s typical that NI keeps saying there COULD be a lot of changes in the final release of an OS update, and that’s why it’s takes them so long to test existing software.

From my POV it’s simply another excuse for bad planning. Prioritizing new business and product development above decent maintenance and support. At least, that’s what I experience as a user if many of their products for years. As said before, they really have to regain trust… and in my case I don’t see any prove that things are changing.

Sunken Forest

Just joining the pool of users that will not pay to update to Maschine 3 desktop until the M+ is compatible with it. It may be cheap, but it's not about the price.

I'm not about to continue investing in an ecosystem of broken promises and failed synergy. As far as I am concerned, I paid my dues when I shelled out for the shiny flagship product on launch; having to endure a device that would lock up and reboot randomly, or get stuck in a boot loop, or waiting for a promised update to come only for it to cause further issues and break compatibility with the existing product range… that was the first 3 years of my first Maschine experience as a newcomer to this platform.

But, in saying all that, I still adore the hardware unit and have definitely had some great times exploring its capabilities. It's just the software side of things that let's the side down. Of course I have found my own ways around the limitations of the device by now, but it would be nice to see some enthusiasm from NI into developing more for the standalone experience. There is a gigantic amount of potential in developing more instruments, effects, or MIDI tools for the M+ - whether that be via Reaktor/Kontakt, or drawing from the huge variety of open source contributions out there.

If it will never be a full DAW, and only an idea generator, then why not just lean into that?Incorporate more MIDI transformation tools and sequencers, develop the sampling capabilities further, allow flexible modulation routing, bring automation editing to the hardware. Some of these things appear to be such low hanging fruit to me when I see them accomplished on smaller hardware devices with less physical controls than the M+ (the Phazerville firmware for the Ornament and Crime eurorack module, and the scripts for Monome Norns are great examples of this for anyone curious. However, the things only really possible through open source software which NI will obviously not be doing.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

I just want to see this device fulfil more of its potential, without holding on for a JJOS moment or user intervention. But ultimately, I feel that NI are going to push more in the AI direction of sound generation more, than investing limited resources to the seemingly flourishing "groovebox" market.