[NKS] Freelance Soundlabs 3rd Party NKS Libraries for Komplete Kontrol / Maschine



  • overlord25
    overlord25 Member Posts: 10 Member

    Jeez, give the guy a break, he's only just got to the end of updating to VST3!

  • Super8boy
    Super8boy Member Posts: 47 Member

    No idea.

    I'm just curious about it is all + whether Native Instruments are involving him in their plans.

    The least they can do is supply him a free MK3 keyboard anyway, given that they have given so many away to influencers and youtubers ;)

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    Well not sure currently and I am being asked this almost every second day :)

    There are graphics I could update to at least make the screen show the large splash image but as for updating the NKS files, we wont have access to any tools to be able to do this kind of stuff and that also cannot be done in the KK software. Things for the moment will work as they have always done which is more than usable but chances are the SDK and info needed (like current NKS) will not be available to the likes of us users so it will depend on what kind of info we can reverse engineer and if there is even a possibility to update existing files. I can tell you, if it came down to having to resave files over again, I doubt I would have the sanity to do it.

    Will also depend on demand too since NKS2 supports only the latest version but NKS1 supports all versions (including Maschine) for the last 10 years and many will not update to the MK3 if they have an MK2 because as nice as the new features are and the new NKS2 functionality, it's not something I would personally update for, it's a cool feature but not a "must have".

    So for now the answer is "dunno yet" but all libraries will still work just fine in the way they do already but there may be some artwork updates, all comes down to time and if I end up shifting into a full time job by end of year (if so then updates and new products will be much less frequent)

  • Onj
    Onj Member Posts: 29 Member

    Hi Jason. Some months ago Roland released some new sounds for the Zenology engine with reverb, since they updated their software. Would you be able to add them for a future release? I'm certainly curious to know what things they might have added. Thank you for your time.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    Yeah eventually i'll do Roland updates. Will be some months because I don't use Roland myself at all but I purchase the subscription to do the NKS side and currently i'm doing UVI stuff for a while. Updates for new content is always a bit lower down the pole especially for plugins like Zenology that already have like a bazillion presets, people always want what they don't have. The problem of the world.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    Info: Spectrasonics Keyscape Library Issue on macOS for VST3

    This is just a quick note about some reported issues with the Keyscape library on macOS for VST3 loading the first preset but then subsequently causing KK to freeze when another preset is loaded.

    The issue was deemed to be a plugin issue for macOS since it does not affect Windows users nor does it affect the same NKS files being opened in Omnisphere and I reported this through to Spectrasonics (who are awesome to deal with) and within a day they have indeed confirmed this is a plugin issue and will work on a fix for the next update.

    So if you have hit this problem a fix from them should be on the way soon but if you have Omnisphere you can load all Keyscape presets within Omnisphere using the Keyscape bank in the NKS omnisphere library. Once a fix is issues there will be no need to update anything on the NKS side, just update your Keyscape software. I will post another update when a fix is posted.

  • Super8boy
    Super8boy Member Posts: 47 Member

    "NKS 2 mappings are much more efficient than NKS 1 mappings for several reasons, chief among them:

    1. NKS is now implemented in KSP (Kontakt Script Processor), so Kontakt instrument builders can develop NKS in tandem with developing their instrument, rather than it be a cumbersome and separate step. That is true for both NKS 1 and NKS 2.
    2. NKS 2 is also a global map, rather than per preset. Both Kontakt and VST developers had to do NKS 1 maps per preset, which takes an age, especially if you have a lot of presets. This doesn't mean the global map has to display a rigid and unchanging list of parameters - they're mapped globally, but how they display on the keyboard is fully dynamic, and can change as parameters change in and out, if the content manufacturer implements this.

    However, it's actually NOT more efficient just yet. Because we still require a product be authored for both NKS 1 and NKS 2 in order that it supports existing and new users. Even if NKS 2 is easier, you still have to author for NKS 1 as well.

    We do plan to introduce more updated tooling at some point to help people who create NKS content do so more efficiently. NKS 2 partners already receive a dedicate application that creates all the required visual assets in one fell swoop, for instance. But there's more work to be done.

    We also need to put thought into how user presets play into NKS 2. Folks like @JesterMgee do a huge amount for the community with third party NKS maps for non NKS products, which is helpful, but also even a lifeline to some (e.g. users who rely on NKS for Accessibility purposes). Currently, this isn't possible, and would still be NKS 1 only, which works on the new keyboards, but doesn't get the cool new features."

    as described by @Matthew_NI

    I just wrote a long post there, but it didn't post as I submitted. Any reason why?

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    No idea about why your post doesn't work.

    Already aware of the info posted, i've read every post, tech note, watched the live stream, been in the Beta for the last few months and even poked around in the new NKS format itself, there are a few things to note tho.

    NKS for plugins does not make use of KSP so that is only for Kontakt stuff.

    The global map thing is all fine, but there still needs to be an exported patch anyway, it just makes it easier for devs to change the template without having to update every file. However what this doesn't cater for is cases like with UVI or something like Keyscape where different patches within the same instrument have completely different settings and mappings so need different maps created. I am sure this is possible but there are cases where it is desired to have a patch-by-patch mapping.

    I think people sometimes get all caught up in the latest and greatest and tend to dismiss everything that worked before. While there are definitely some nice improvements there is still a good 90% of the functionality at the core that is the same between both formats from what I have seen so it's not, how the kids call it a "game changer" by any stretch, not as it stands, just a good and useful update to the standard.

    Anyway, all that functionality is locked behind developer only accessible utilities under NDA and legal mumbo jumbo so currently, no chance we will see any of these features available outside of official NKS plugins any time soon.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 2,854 Expert
    edited September 21

    However what this doesn't cater for is cases like with UVI or something like Keyscape where different patches within the same instrument have completely different settings and mappings so need different maps created. I am sure this is possible but there are cases where it is desired to have a patch-by-patch mapping.

    Yeah same for things like Reaktor. Honestly at the moment it looks like NKS2 authoring is based either in Kontakt Builder Tools for Kontakt libraries using KSP scripting and in house tools, or via a plugin SDK; none of that is open to users. The best we can do at the moment, and I have just posted a couple of NKS examples of how to do this, is update thumbnails to ensure they at least look pretty on the bigger screens. If you save a mapped plugin as a NKS patch in Komplete Kontrol that is still just NKS1 but that has been enough to create a huge user community of unofficial NKS patches via Jester's site and the NKS User Library and many other contributors like Sunborn and Christos Adamos. I don't see any of that changing in the foreseeable future, even the new version of KK will probably still just have NKS1 authoring capabilities built in because that is the basic way musicians can map params to the hardware, that can't be removed and shouldn't be.

    Unless we get a miracle and NI decide to make the tools available to the masses, something I have been arguing the case for, at least for NKS1.

  • Super8boy
    Super8boy Member Posts: 47 Member

    You're very right there. Thanks for the clear explanation of what it entails.

    It is very helpful to know thing. And it is true that the work in customization the different pages (often per preset for the likes of UVI and Keyscapes) is already a game changer in itself :)

    I hope Native Instruments do their best to support you and others in your position, but it is a tricky path alright between NDAs, SDK implementation and all other obstacles.

  • adriaantaylor
    adriaantaylor Member Posts: 3 Newcomer

    Having been following this post 3 things have stood out…. 1- NI must not be truly serious about really pushing this as a true standard.. if they aren’t willing to stop “gatekeeping” stuff for small devs. - 2 YOU are a godsend but you shouldn’t be needed… Companies should step up and do the work…”minimum viable product” (lazy devs - especially larger plugin companies… SHAME!) - you shouldn't have to.. and 3 - This process really needs to be less clunky to implement..

    Those of us that use NKS are forever indebted to you for all your hard work…!

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    I wouldn't say NI aren't serious, of course they are serious about NKS and the potential but there are a lot of hurdles to overcome to make it more mainstream and fact is, while NKS is great for us users it is really just another way to entice developers to sign up to the growing NI conglomerate so ideally this is what NI want to happen rather than us users to take away from that.

    One issue is not all users out there have a careful attention to detail or follow standards so making NKS too open could result in it seeming to be a mess. I see some user created libraries with a bit of a mess of tagging and it can result in you seeing things like "Pad, Pads, Synth Pad, Synth Pads..." all as tags instead of all under a single tag. Sure this can all be fixed but from a user perspective when they download from random locations, put it all together as a pretty new user then go to use it the impression of how the NKS eco system works isn't good off the bat especially if things don't work or the control pages have not been designed correctly.

    So NI like to have some quality control and not just me but several of the guys here making libraries take time and use their experience to make sure we follow the same NI guidelines as much as possible so things fit seamlessly. I also contact a lot of developers and have input from hundreds of users about suggestions which have shaped the templates and tagging over the years.

    The other issue for devs is simply time and effort. No matter which way we look, NKS is still a niche area of the audio production field and even with the right tools it can still take considerable time for a dev to design, create, tag and have NI approve all their content for NKS not to mention there is code needed for official NKS that has to be coded into the plugin itself for things like lightguide to work, not all devs fancy having to do this. Trust me when I say I have spoken with many developers about NKS and not to forget 90% of the plugins out there are very small teams, they just do not have the time to manage it since it then has to be maintained and updated over time. Think of the headache devs had to endure going from VST2 to VST3 on top of having to make their plugins compatible with Apple Silicon.

    Then there is simply the competition view. NI sell plugins that in some cases directly compete with the sales of other plugins and industry wide, NI haven't always had the best reputation, some devs just have very low interest to have to sign up as a partner especially when looking at the fact that very few over the last 10 years NKS has been out have jumped onboard and some of those that have only added NKS to a few of their plugins, likely due to the effort needed and likely to just test the waters or have their name on the vendor list for publicity. I will not mention names but I can assure you, there are at least 10 plugins I cover that are reasonably popular that will likely never see official NKS but things may change since it all comes down to demand, if enough people ask maybe it will be considered tho this has been run over many, many times in 10 years.

    So really there are a lot of hurdles which I have actually spoken with NI about numerous times over the years and it is what it is. I would never expect every dev to jump onboard and I would also not expect NI to do all the work either. Akai tried with the Akai Advance and, well, look how that has ended up, basically abandoned now.

    It's always a wait and see game but I like to just work with what I can so always suggest to look into what you can do now, place some hope for the future but never expectation.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    Now Available: UVI Augmented Orchestra NKS Library

    UVI Augmented Orchestra NKS library now available for both VST2/3 and Falcon/Workstation compatible.

    Fully tagged with previews and includes a full controller map, tho UVI is limited to only 128 parameters for control there is a different template for the dual layer and single layer presets to offer extra control for single layer patches.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    Now Available: UVI Falcon Expansion Fluidity

    NKS library for Falcons Fluidity now available. Falcon expansions are a pain to make libraries for, this one no exception. Each preset has a completely different set of controls and labels so each preset has been saved by hand with all controls labelled for each preset. Makes using expansions so much better.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,284 Expert

    Now Available: UVI Attack EP88 NKS Library

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