Does the NI Forum Community Culture need a change?
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I’m active on many music and Mac related forums. Nowhere have I seen a reward system like this. It leads to overposting, clearly visible on this forum in many threads.
People should participate because they want to engage and/or help and not because of someone waggling a carrot in front of them, IMHO.
This thread should be pinned on top, by the way. Is it possible to pin threads in first place and if not then why not?
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Maybe vouchers were the wrong types of perks but rewards/ranks are pretty standard in communities, especially when there is questions/solutions.
It is possible to pin threads and you can see tons of threads on top of categories. These are reserved for information/announcements or specific activities though.
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Some more thoughts on this....
1) Create a section under Hang Out entitled "Soap Box"... and rather than delete argumentative posts, move them to this area so the either the engaging parties can continue to argue away from the herd, or stab at whatever windmills they feel compelled to do.
2) Let the OP of a thread "moderate" the thread they have created.. the OP can move posts to the "Soap Box", and also declare a "Best Answer" to their thread.
Might be technical reasons that these things can't be done... but I do think these ideas might be a nice blend of "distributed moderation" and working within the reality of people's behavior.
The OP of a thread has a vested interest in its moderation.
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Nothing against ranks and titles, but to reward with vouchers or any other financial means is wrong approach, IMHO.
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The only time I can remember SW rewards working really well to build a community sense and positive relationships between users was the "beat battles" of the old forum, it was a meritocratic reward system with low chance of possible abuse. Everyone uploads a track within xyz limitations initially anonymously, everyone votes and the most voted wins, we get to know each other's musical skills, have an incentive to make a finished track every month, etc... The problem is this is more of a Maschine thing but It could be expanded for Kontakt too I guess. NI themselves can use it to promote new product releases too.
It's quite a bit of work to organize but I wouldn't mind doing it, as long as I can participate 😈, obviously negating myself of any possible prize due to my rank just like Mods are off the leaderboards currently.
But if for example, it's a feedback thread the point of engaging is to pass along the user experience and thoughts on a release (like the KK threads that got shut down) in hopes you get the attention of someone in charge on issues, if OP decides to move everything he doesn't agree it becomes a unilateral feedback thread and not representative of the community and instead just the OP's own thoughts.
Giving random users the power to move comments sounds dangerous, if everyone can moderate there will be issues and we would have to moderate that moderation... meaning a ton more work. :S
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One simple thing that I think would be useful is to give users the ability to delete their posts.
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This idea of users being able to move a post to the "Soap Box" would only apply if they were the OP of a thread. I really think giving OP such an ability would work pretty well.
Threads that were too self-indulgent would organically get "siloed" from the community as having limited value.
Threads that had an open, constructive exchange would organically be more communal.
I think it would really suit the range of human behaviors to have value rise to the top.
The more I think about these 2 ideas in tandem (Soap Box + OP being able to move stuff there), the more I think it would work really well.
As a recent example.. I'm sure @Vagus would have kept his thread "Feedback - KK3" a much more functional place to share feedback.
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What do you mean by dev / mods softbanning a thread? Do you mean us closing a thread?
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We have discussed this internally before and I agree. Theres an argument that people can just wipe down their whole history and whatnot when they rage, leaving threads a bit odd but IMO everyone has the right to delete their own online footprint. Sometimes we say things we regret, then later on it can still get quoted and rekindle things..
Unlimited editing time just leads people to replace all the text with "[I deleted this]", which is arguably worse.
Maybe. IDK about others but I would be very reluctant to engage in anything if OP can just wipe out anything I post and put me in a toxic box somewhere in a corner... If everyone made reasonable choices this thread wouldn't even be a topic.
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Regular users would quickly learn who's threads were worth engaging in...
If an OP has a pattern of moving stuff to the Soap Box without good reason.. then they would become some lonely posters..
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No, that would be better. You leave it open but posting in it will not bump it to the front any more. It quietly dies out without people knowing why no one answers any more.
If I remember correctly these two where affected:
Last time I posted in these they would not rise to the top of Social Club sub forum like others do.
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And we have another drama unfolding, this time in German language. Mods should be reacting already and they are not…
This guy has already started offending other posters.
https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/20278/kritik-an-ni-berechtigte#latest
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I have been listening to all the great feedback for the last few days and would like of offer some of my own.
- Delete my post I 100% agree with this. Sometimes we simply pull the trigger on posts and wish that we can delete them for whatever reason and I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to do just that.
- BIG ideas/changes There are a lot of interesting ideas that are thinking outside of the box which could be impactful and thus merit discussion/consideration but not necessarily rushed implementation.
- Soft/quiet Implementation of tweaks There are also a number of things that would be defined as subtle tweaks. I don't think these necessarily need to be implemented with a lot of formality/fanfare and nor do you need an "all at once" approach here. But rather make the tweaks quietly, measure the impact. Keep it if it is working, change it if it doesn't. Most won't even notice and many wouldn't even care.
- Moderator Incentives A part of the issue at hand has been identified as a lack of moderator manpower and we all know it is a big commitment. So what is wrong with rewards or incentives for moderators? Service milestones? No one here deserves it more if you ask me.
- Rewards There will always be people who abuse any system. I don't advocate for making changes to curb a few but would prefer that we focus on changes that serve the many. @Kaiwan_NI pointed out that the people asked for rewards and it was implemented. I think rewards can be fun but how about do it in a way that is more random so it doesn't breed competition and all the undesirable side effects that come with it? Draws? Other things. But no more "leaderboard" would be helpful.
- Flags First and foremost, no flags that can be used as retaliatory tools for they surely will be. Report flexibility (reasons for report) is great. If providing a list allows for tracking what is reported most then that is very sensible. But having a text box for "other" is also good. I don't think it has to be dummied down per se.
- Enabling thread participation I am surprised at how few of us are engaging in this discussion considering the thread is intended to be "actionable". Meaning that the members have the opportunity to impact the outcome which is a rare occurrence. It makes me wonder if Admin should take ownership of this thread and make it more prominent/visible/formal. That is assuming you desire broader participation. And that thread could later serve as an ongoing feedback loop for the purpose of measuring the effect of changes made along the way. When you make a change, drop a quick note into the thread if you feel inclined. Communities are dynamic and it could be an easy way to take the temperature of the room so to speak.
Cheers.
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@MyStudioOne , I agree with all above. In regards of making it more prominent - as I said before, this thread should be pinned at the top.
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We have this option, sometimes it's used when a post is only relevant to the OP and no one else, this prevents a conversation between us and op from wasting space on the first page.
I've have seen it used for the purpose you're talking about only once, and trust me, people do notice and there were immediate claims of 'censorship of criticism', it's another case of the fine line between moderation and censor. Keep in mind that some people keep 'conversations' going endlessly exactly to bump it to the first page to seek attention.... So people will def notice. Sneaky tactics don't tend to yield positive results.
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