Do you want BATTERY 5?
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”Cool products for the “coolness” factor was the old NI. Back when coolness factor was a thing. Back when they were bringing out game changers one after the other.
NI is not what I would call “cool” in anyway here in 2024.
They are clearly focused on a half dozen key software families and will keep pouring all main resources in these areas.
While I am not discounting a miracle- I do not see anything changing anytime soon.
VP
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I mean, they just dropped Glaze 2. And before that, Session Bassist. And before that, Schema: Light, Action Woodwinds, Jacob Collier Audience Choir, Electric Keys, Echoes Expansion, and Session Percussionist (not counting the iZotope products).
Everyone sees the obvious trend, right?
We've had CEO and product managers from NI come on the forum and transparently discuss what they are working on. There has been no mention of any investment or development of any kind for any non-Komplete/non-Kontakt products. In fact, NI staff have at times over the past 12 months explicitly state the opposite.
I think it's sad, but it's important to adjust your expectations and either enjoy what you have or sell it and move on. But to continue to post on this forum hoping and praying for some kind of investment in Battery, Massive/X, or Reaktor is just setting yourself up for anger or sadness. I'm just going to enjoy what I have in Reaktor and Guitar Rig (it's pretty much the only NI stuff I use). Battery, for me, is nothing more than a collection of samples that I've imported into better sequencers, libraries, samplers, and drum machines. I couldn't care less if they update it or not (and, yes, this is a complete reversal on my previous opinion, when I was still in denial about NI's future strategy and corporate direction).
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"NI is not what I would call “cool” in anyway here in 2024."
Defenitely not. And IMO that's one of the ressons why they're not doing well anymore.
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I like how NI never bothered to integrated their flagship drum vst with their flagship hardware drum machine.
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"I like how NI never bothered to integrated their flagship drum vst with their flagship hardware drum machine."
That - and how we get loop slicing capabilities in Kontakt but not in Battery.
I also like how there's not even just one GM compatible drumset in Battery 4. Makes it a joy to work with, say, Logic's Drummer.
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Here's the thing: If you're an experienced and/or trained percussionist…and you know about the enormous range of percussion instruments in the world and the incredible range of sounds you can get with them (as well as different playing techniques)…then there is HUGE value in a sample playback instrument dedicated solely to percussion—with an interface designed from the ground up for percussion instruments.
On the other hand, if you're just someone who's only interest is in cool new drumkit patches for your latest electronica noodling, then I'd say you're fine with Kontakt or countless other virtual instruments out there.
So from NI's perspective, I'd say it comes down to: what is the market for a dedicated PERCUSSION instrument? One that's appreciated by people who know that (for example) a paradiddle sounds very different than alternating 16th notes…or that a thumb roll on a tambourine sounds very different than a shaken roll.
I'll also add that I agree with everyone who says: give us Battery 4 but better—a larger, better interface…and include the entire Battery 3 library too. (There is absolutely no reason to "retire" a good sample library.)
Scott
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Yeah, there's definitely some value in that. Just even having that classic kind of con tool expression available to use with modern sounds could help take a mediocre drum kit preset and put it on the next level.
Music is that art of expression
So naturally, being able to add more expression to your otherwise static sounds can help it sound so much more musical. This is why I've never been a fan of dropping kit samples straight on the the time line, it seriously lacks identity and expression. Drum plugins like Battery really helps address that.
I don't care much for a sequencer, I'd rather use Logic's Pattern Regions, I don't care for a whole range of effects as I can use third party effects for that. But I do always prefer to have basic sampler/synth controls over our sounds, with modulation and some basic effects because that's how you can add life and expression to a groove.
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+1 to those just wanting a functionnal Battery 4 instead of a new product.
I don't want to pay for Battery 5, and I don't want not being able to recall old sessions. I want a working, functionnal and updated Battery 4.
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It's blatantly obvious (to me anyway) that Battery 4 development has concluded. Like Reaktor 6 - I seem to recall a thread or two around here somewhere where NI committed to getting it in shape for Apple Silicon and getting it settled as a VST3 - but that was it.
Outside of some emergency hard crash scenario where suddenly no one can open Battery due to a new undocumented conflict - those wondering about enhancements or fixes on this thing will be waiting a long time.
The private equity firm calling the shots now does not see a future for this app in the "active investment" part of their active spreadsheets. Battery is most likely sitting on a tab called Legacy.
VP
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That’s unreasonable. Also to give you a bit of history, our community used to stress constantly over whether Maschine would eliminate the need for Battery. Times certainly have changed, but the irony is that Maschine should have long since replaced Battery if the MPC Live 2 is any indication of the possibilities NI has squandered with the Maschine + along with snail’s pace updates to the desktop version. But anyways, you’ll be paying $299.95 for Battery 5 and it will probably be worse than Battery 4 imo as all useful functionality will be stripped out because “usage data.”
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If there was a Battery 5 that' attract me, the first thing they'd have to do is to bring all the Battery 3 features back that they have stripped out for IMO zero plausible reasons. That's an oxymoron already.
But in general, if NI wanted, they could make Battery a killer "one shot sampler" (or maybe even more) if they added slicing, Serato Sample alike functionality and included Form (or, kinda similar, an engine such as Waves' CR8, which is quite nice, too). That'd be an incredibly inspiring fun sampler and many people would get all wet over it.
But obviously, that won't happen.
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In the Battery 4 "Suddenly knobs don't work" thread, Jeremy_NI told everybody they will fix the knobs bug. No ETA at the moment, but it has been said…
I don't like what happens with NI since they became part of this investment fund, but I must recognize the NI employees are doing what they can on this forum to inform us (or sometime help us) about all what is broken with NI. I think I can trust them when they tell it will be updated at some point.
Of course, it doesn't mean they will add new features or fix the UI-UX issues everybody is speaking about in this thread…1 -
Hey, I only started using Battery from V4, do you mind illuminating why everybody keeps banging on about Battery 3?? What features were dropped?? It will help me to form a better understanding.
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"If you study markets, and in particular PE before/during/after, you are
hard pressed to find a single example of this sort of investment making a
brand or product better."I do study markets, and you are right about the great majority of acquisitions being a net worse by most or all objective measurements, not just "PE" (Private Equity) acquisitions.
So you're right, congratulations!
But now what? Everybody is consolidating; it's either that or close the doors.
The difference to me is that today's NI is trying. Yes, the updates are coming way too slowly, and they don't fix enough things with each new update cycle. And besides, I'm sure they already have too many cooks in the Komplete Kontrol kitchen. Adding more won't make things go faster. So I choose grace.
And that's because I'm certain that even if the old management still had the company, I think this catastrophe would have still happened. There was nothing magical and mythical about the prior management that would have prevented the KK debacle. It is what it is at this point, and truth be told, it might have been 10X worse under the old management. Remember, the old management was TERRIBLE at communicating; absolutely terrible!
Plus, this wasn't the first bad release from Native Instruments, and guess what? It won't be the last. I remember one of the early Kompletes had some major issues, but sheesh, it's been almost 20 years since then.
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As for M&A shenanigans, there is a question to be asked. And I don't know the answer. Was NI bought up because they were failing? Or did the founders just want to cash in and retire? There are many reasons for selling your company, and probably half of them are good reasons without any nefariousness present at all.
In the end, the actual reasons probably won't change the sequence of events happening from here on out. A lot of instrument makers have gone by the wayside (or got bought out) in the last 4-6 years. Consolidation is a natural (though usually undesirable) outcome of all the economics of businesses.
Even Sweetwater was bought out a couple years ago by Providence Equity. Yamaha owns Steinberg, for more than 10 years now. SSL got bought by Audiotonix, KKR owns Gibson Guitars, and Servco Pacific owns Fender Guitars. Unilever owns Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, along with Dove soap. Hey, better not get those last two mixed up!
Just look at the car makers. General Motors has Buick, GMC, Chevrolet, and Cadillac. But at one time, some of them were their own companies. At other times, GM also owned LaSalle, McLaughlin, Oakland, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Hummer, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall, Daewoo, and Holden.
And Ford Motor Company once had Volvo, Land Rover, Jaguar, Aston Martin, and Mercury. But now it's just Ford and Lincoln.
Shall we talk about computers? IBM has a similar story. And Microsoft, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and others have their own buying and selling of each other going on. AMD and ATI, for example. Microsoft bought up Microprose and a half-jillion other companies, if memory serves. And who the hell bought up Netscape, huh? Yeah, remember Netscape? And Hayes? And Amdahl? And Hitachi Data Systems? How about everything that got rolled into Western Digital?
Like the quote from that movie, "All restaurants are Taco Bell now." And so it continues.
At least for now, I've decided to ride with today's Native Instruments, at least while I keep seeing effort happening. The NI from the 2010s was a lot worse for the consumer. I was there. Well not "there". I was here. There. Anyhow, we didn't get no four updates of Komplete Kontrol at any other time in history. And the completely ham-handed way they killed Kore? And ignoring us for more than 10 years before killing Rig Kontrol? Man oh man, I sure don't want to go back to any of THAT.
Yeah, I'm riding with Native. So let's saddle up, we've got a long way to go, and a horse is only good for about 15 miles each day.
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I've only scratched the surface with Steinberg's "Groove Agent". Some good stuff in there, even from the very first version of it some 20 years ago.
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