The MASCHINE+ Feedback Thread
Comments
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This is a basic Maschine concept which becomes very clear once you use it in the way it was originally designed for (which is not sequencing external gear).
Probably it is not the original aim of Maschine, but we speak about Maschine+.
So If it will be also the case for Maschine+, what is the aim of this official video of NI?
What is the purpose of adding Midi in and out port and midi clock on Maschine+?
Why the recognition of usb-midi device was added on the last firmware?
And the description on page 14 of the official manual : "Integrating MASCHINE+ into a MIDI Setup"?
etc, etc.
If you're right that this concept was not present on Maschine (I am not as experienced as you), it should be present on Maschine+.
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Yes, but not as important as Program Change...
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That's your personal opinion... We each have our own, the next guy might never use Program Changes and have some other compliant, equally valid, or logical.
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This is a basic Maschine concept which becomes very clear once you use it in the way it was originally designed for (which is not sequencing external gear).
Note that in essence there's nothing different about Maschine's Modulation, in DAW's Modulation is also relative, the thing is people tend to mostly only use Automation so get confused...
It works the same way in Ableton for example (in terms of relative position):
I don't think any of this relates to sequencing external gear tho, unless I misunderstood something, if I did I apologize.
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Modulate is the act of affecting said parameter. Automate is the means to do it. Unless in Maschine universe, they mean differently. In Maschine Jam, there is an [Auto] button which may give us a clue. Here, modulate means affecting the parameters via the touch strips and automate records the movement given to the strips.
If all else fails..
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When you say: "This is hard to visualize on the M+ because... well it has no visualization at all for modulation lanes nor do you see the knobs moving - but it's really simple to grasp on the desktop software"
I hope you understood that I don't really care about the software... (I didn't even install it...)
If I had to be interested in a hybrid system (controller + computer) I would have invested years ago in Maschine mk2/mk3 (or Ableton Push)
I bought Maschine+!
What NI needs to understand is that with Maschine+ they reach a new audience. And especially those who make music in a DAWless environment.
So talking about software in this context is totally off topic.
But I understand that for historical users of Maschine it is not easy to understand. Besides, that explains the confusion that there was when Maschine+ was announced : "oh actually it is the exact same device that Maschine mk3... no upgrade.. and we can't even use third-party instruments, and we are very limited in terms of ressources by the internal combo CPU/RAM...but it costs twice as much!"
(I think we have all read these comments...)
But what these people have not understood is that it has nothing to do with the previous products actually
it's kind of a new paradigm
not the same product, nor the same public.
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D-One wrote:
I don't think any of this relates to sequencing external gear tho, unless I misunderstood something
to control external devices, we need to automate program (and bank) change
but also other parameters (via midi CC#)
this is very basic stuff in a DAWless environment
I come from MPC Live where all these things are possible and even if I prefer the global workflow of Maschine+ I'm a bit disappointed about this
(I kept my MPC actually...and I don't know what I'm going to do...Like @Akira-76 I guess I will wait for the next update to decide..)
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@D-One wrote:
DAW's Modulation is also relative
Possibly, yes. AFAIK, the concept of Modulation as a means to change parameters on electronic musical gear relative to another CV, even relative to another MOD, goes back to Bob Moog.
However, I never use Modulation in DAWs (I don’t even know whether it exists in Cubase, couldn’t find it in the maual) because I always use automation either by recording knob movements on hardware (MIDI CC) or by drawing curves. Which results in absolute knob positions for the respective hardware or plugin.
PS: What those who complain seem to overlook is that Maschine is originally designed as a musical instrument and not as a MIDI sequencer. And that hasn’t changed by making it standalone, it’s rather enforced.
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You're right, it's confusing as hell.
@Akira-76 should contact our Maschine Plus support team directly to check things out (like it was suggested by few of us already)
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@ozon wrote:
Maschine is originally designed as a musical instrument and not as a MIDI sequencer. And that hasn’t changed by making it standalone
In this case, I agree with the @Akira-76 's statement : why is NI highlighting this feature for Maschine+ ?
(it's a rhetorical question of course...)
And we talk about Maschine+ in this thread, right? Not Maschine.
(the problem is perhaps precisely to have chosen practically the same name and the same format/design...)
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I will do, I was not able to connect me due to what seem a connection bug.
Even your statement is right, objectively you have to admit that the communication of NI is confusing about Maschine+. And as example, the MPC since probably the beginning is also not a midi sequencer by design but a sampler that use midi to sequence audio and on-board plugin as is Maschine, as you describe. But Akai add functions to this design to facilitate the use of external midi HW, as NI do on Maschine and a step ahead on Maschine+.
Now, by the functions that are implemented on Maschine software and Maschine+, clearly it show that midi HW are part of the design as well (even some functions are lacking imo). That mean it is not an "overlook" to ask a feature to deal more comfortably, as it is, with Program Change. And imo (so debatable), today with a device like Maschine+, it can handle such function and should be a basic thing.
Imo, only NI can answer definitively to this question : what is the purpose behind functionalities that was added to deal with midi HW device?
A simple question.
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Here's my "cynical" take on why there is no built-in MIDI program change feature on the M+
In Berlin, everybody has jumped on board the Eurorack modular train. All they require is sending of MIDI notes and clock, and then the resulting modular synth takes are resampled back into M+
Yall need to get with the times, forget about those MIDI synths with patch memory! Even Youtuber musicians use Eurorack in 2022
/sarcasm
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Are you reading what I am saying or skimming thru it? I said that in reply to Ozon, as in - The fact that modulation is relative is unrelated to "M+'s primary goal not being sequencing external gear" modulation is always relative in everything.
Of course Program Changes are required for many users, no one said otherwise, and parameters via CC even more... The latter is possible but must be done in a computer first, is it absolutely silly that a standalone would need a computer to set up external CC's? YES.
I'm a bit baffled by those statements... I showed you the software only to explain how the Modulation works because you seemed confused about it, and if it showed modulation lanes things would be much easier for new M+ users.... in my mind, I am trying to help you, not argue or not push you towards the desktop version, they both work the exact same way regardless of you considering the M+ a new paradigm .... it's virtually the same software; which is actually a big part of the problem - Porting something to a box that didn't have what you want in the first place.
I guess the more a reply and try to help the more the thread gets derailed, you always have the official option ...... "contact support" with your concerns, good luck with that.
@ozon said:
Possibly, yes. AFAIK, the concept of Modulation as a means to change parameters on electronic musical gear relative to another CV, even relative to another MOD, goes back to Bob Moog.
However, I never use Modulation in DAWs (I don’t even know whether it exists in Cubase, couldn’t find it in the maual) because I always use automation either by recording knob movements on hardware (MIDI CC) or by drawing curves. Which results in absolute knob positions for the respective hardware or plugin.
Yeah, it's as old as my grampa. Maybe it's the fact that in some environments (like Maschine, Ableton, MPC, etc..) Modulation can have it's own "lane" that confuses people who are only used to seeing Automation lanes. I mean a Simple LFO connected to a parameter is a modulator, which obviously controls a knob in a relative way as well. It's really just Internal VS external, an advanced synth can have complex mod lanes, like massive x, which would work on Cubase regardless of it having Mod lanes or not.
This is topic is taking over the thread so I'll remove myself from this convo.
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