The MASCHINE+ Feedback Thread

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  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
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    @Fugazi81

    thank you very much!

    I will try! About the MIDI loop, and the problems it can cause, maybe I will fix it with my midi interface (iconnectivity MIO10, instead of using a simple midi cable from output direct to the input)

    which allows for example to filter certain midi messages, on a specific channel, routing particular datas etc.

    I'm more worried about the latency that such a loop could generate... to be tested! :)

    Thanks again

  • Fugazi81
    Fugazi81 Member Posts: 58 Advisor
    edited February 2022
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    No problem, I'm always happy to help.


    I think it's easier with a MIDI interface or MIDI patchbay and I don't think latency should be a problem. It's not sample accurate, of course, but definitely usable.


    But while we're on the subject, it would be awesome if the "midi-thru" option (Sound-Input-Midi) , which is on by default, could be turned off by default, at least in the options. that would reduce the risk of a feedback loop.

    There was a post about it in the old forum. some good ideas on the subject


  • Schmapps1
    Schmapps1 Member Posts: 135 Pro
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    There is a workaround for this, though it’s a bit convoluted and hacky. As Alfredo mentioned, the lock states can be triggered by external midi notes. So, you need to set up a midi-loop back system

  • Schmapps1
    Schmapps1 Member Posts: 135 Pro
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    I can confirm that this works, at least on the Mk3. I am currently using this hack-y method to tie different lock states to scene changes.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 620 Guru
    edited February 2022
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    Hi Alfredo,

    thanks for bringing up this workaround again, I seemed to have missed it earlier! Now, if you don't mind, I would like to go through the process of setting up such program change editing in M+ standalone, just to make sure I have understood it all correctly..

    In order to add a program change message and send it on M+ in standalone I need to:

    1. Create or load a MIDI instrument preset with macros set up for sending program and bank change messages (If I need to create one from scratch, I must use Maschine desktop application for creating the CC macros)
    2. Create a lock state with the appropriate parameter values set for the CC macros, which will result in loading the correct bank and preset of my MIDI target device when this lock state gets triggered
    3. Trigger this lock state once after opening the project file, before pressing PLAY in order to send the bank/program changes out to the MIDI target

    Did I understand all this correctly? If so, this workaround will be very useful for me in the future. Also, since lock states can change an unlimited amount of parameters at once, I can add the required bank/program change messages of all my MIDI gear into a single lock, so it's just one keypress to recall all settings.

    (I also understand that I can remote control lock states via external MIDI, but I do not use any external MIDI controller I could use for such a thing)

    Thanks!

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 620 Guru
    edited February 2022
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    A follow up to my last message:

    I just created a "barebones" MIDI preset for sending MSB/LSB bank and program change messages to a MIDI track (I included a Volume control also, in case your MIDI target supports external gainstaging for 100% tracking volume recall). Just tested this preset in my M+ standalone and it indeed seems to be working!

    Can anyone else verify this works on their M+?

    To install it on your M+, copy the extracted mxsnd preset into your M+ SD card in storage mode, under your "User Content" subfolder, then load up the sound from the browser (should show up in BROWSER/SOUNDS/USER). Now, go to the sound's output settings and set your desired MIDI channel. The controls for sending the MIDI messages can be found by pressing the MACRO key.

    If this is working satisfactorily for everyone involved, the only remaining step is to get the macro changes sent properly via a lock state trig. This presents one challenge I can think of, and that is the sending of MSB/LSB Bank Change messages needs to occur before sending the program change message itself. The behaviour needs to be tested IRL..

    I had to zip up the mxsnd preset file, because the new forum does not support mxsnd file format...? But interestingly supports mxprj - Can the forum mods check this please? Not sure if a bug or intended functionality..


  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 620 Guru
    edited February 2022
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    GUYS, I TESTED THIS JUST NOW AND IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING!

    At least in my case, the bank change message gets sent before the program change, resulting in a perfect preset recall from my synth!

    So how to do this:

    1. first, do everything outlined in my previous post (install the preset, set MIDI CH)
    2. go to MACRO page, set the desired bank and program change values (be sure to set bank value before setting prg chng!) and press LOCK
    3. You should now have a lock state which recalls the bank and preset when clicked

    I never could have figured this out without your tip @Afredo_NI - teamwork FTW 😎

    EDIT: I found an "issue" with this method. Seems like Maschine+ only sends the lock state if it's different to the current state of the project with regards to the locked parameters. This means that if you go changing the MIDI target patch from anywhere else, M+ will not resend the program change until it sees the internal MACRO values have changed within the project. This applies to all the messages, including the bank changes, so unexoected results may manifest if you go changing the presets from anywhere else but from within the macros. Obviously, more testing is needed to verify that no other issues creep up during more complex real-world scenarios. I urge everyone interested to do further testing.

    I fear this same issue might also affect reloading the project.. what if you save a project after the snapshot has been recalled? Will the project load with the macro values already set and result in the lock state not recalling? Right now, I can think of one way to force the lock state sending, and that is to create a "reset" state in addition to the actual preset fetching lock state. Such a reset state would just have every bank and prg chng set to zero.. But building this reset state gets more tedious with every added MIDI device..

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
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    ..or we just ask NI to add for the next update a simple menu in the Midi Channel screen where we can choose a number for the 3 midi messages (PC MSB LSB) 😋

    at the sound level 🤘

    Really I don't think it is difficult or too long to implement

    and help many users avoid these far-fetched workaround for a very basic feature for a sequencer with a midi output.😖

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 620 Guru
    edited February 2022
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    You do you. I'm more into "make do and mend" approaches when it comes to dealing with problems. Why wait a year (or more...) for NI to implement something you can already use in your music making today? I was testing this method further last night and it seems to help me accomplish everything I need to do. Now I don't need to memorize/document the names of my MIDI synth presets (and their preset numbers) just to be able to recall my MIDI sequences later, which was much more of a hassle than creating two extra lock states (reset banks/progs & set banks/progs) in my project.

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
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    @tetsuneko

    I was just kidding.. 😉(since I don't feel like NI relates to its user community in any way) it's always weird to me to see users scrambling to try and work around a problem for an ultra basic midi function which should have been implemented as soon as the product was released...

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 620 Guru
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    That "weird" behaviour is also known as "Getting ****** done" in certain circles..

  • TheLoudest
    TheLoudest Member Posts: 110 Advisor
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    OK.

    dude...I was the first one to propose (on this very thread) the workaround with the lockstates, so...

    Short! Enjoy this trick.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 620 Guru
    edited February 2022
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    Like I said in my post to Alfredo, I missed the first time this lock state workaround was mentioned. And to be fair, you didn't exactly elaborate how to do it in detail, and you did not mention anything about needing an extra "reset" lock state for the program changes to work reliably.

    But apologies if I came across as confrontative. That was not my intent. I'm just happy this whole pgm chng mess is behind me now!

  • Percivale
    Percivale Member Posts: 209 Advisor
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    Chill peeps. We all want the best for Maschine.

  • Koldunya
    Koldunya Member Posts: 14 Member
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    Either the ability to use REX files or ignore them; I just want the Prismatic Bliss Expansion on Maschine+ lol.

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