NKS Development Discussion

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  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 4,064 mod
    edited October 2022
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    In the short term this means either running in Rosetta (which isn't causing me any problems) and loading the VST2 version still or accepting KK is able to load the VST3 versions in native mode but not migrate NKS presets saved from some VST2 plugins and using it as primarily a controller, not preset librarian, until migration is working for all. I think NI have pulled off an amazing job transitioning to VST3, it was always a complex challenge, and the fact that so many third party plugins do migrate, even non NKS partners like Valhalla, UVI and Vital, is amazing. However much of this is up to the third party developers now.

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 429 Guru
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    I may have a way to migrate VSTShell presets to base VST - but it might be a couple of weeks away. Doing some testing on this next week, I hope.

    But also, good work NI!

  • Peter Kilgour
    Peter Kilgour Member Posts: 10 Member
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    None of my user plugins work (Spectrasonics, U-He and Cherry Audio), at least none of the presets.

    "Dreamsynth could not be loaded, as it may not support Apple Silicon or VST2 to VST3 migration"

  • Diam
    Diam Member Posts: 221 Helper
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    Thanks for the templates. Got the Padshop and Korg templates working fine. Mapping is the tough part so that's really helpful.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 4,064 mod
    edited October 2022
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    Best to see Apple Silicon support as a work in progress. This is a significant step forwards and we should not underestimate the difficulty involved here for NI in getting this far. However many plugins don't support Apple silicon at all yet, let alone plugin migration, and even some flagship NI plugins like Reaktor are still to be converted so for me there are only 2 choices, either accept in the short term KK still needs to be run in Rosetta and keep some VST2 plugins on the system (while urging developers to get on board with migration) or go full native and do without some NKS presets and plugins for a while, just using KK as a controller interface for the plugins that work - which now includes a whole bunch of new VST3 only plugins like Plasmonic - which is for me the most exciting thing in all of this.

  • Eight4aWish
    Eight4aWish Member Posts: 54 Helper
    edited October 2022
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    Having shut almost everyone out of the beta there is now a huge amount of work to be done converting old presets. It would have been nice to have had a head start. I am starting with A and Abyss. KK feels very quick running M1 native so this will be quicker the second time around.

  • Diam
    Diam Member Posts: 221 Helper
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    Would have been nice to see multi support in this one, but hopefully they will do it before the next major overhaul of the platform.

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 429 Guru
    edited October 2022
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    Id love to see that, but that isn't 3.0 if I was the project lead.

    3.0 would be scalable GUI (not kontakt instruments - the GUI itself) with new browser from Kontakt.

    My wishlist now is:

    1. Multi support, because right now, NI isn't supporting all kontakt libraries 100%.
    2. Layered preset saves.
    3. Effect only loading (like Maschine already has), for get this, "Komplete Kontrol" of effects in DAW.
  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 4,064 mod
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    Yes I'm hoping now this is out of the way we will get back to the things that have been put off:

    Modernised GUI

    Proper full FX support

    Multis

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 4,064 mod
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    Just a reminder I created these for 2 purposes - a) to test VST3 NKS functionality, b) they are templates so are meant to enable control primarily but can also serve as starting points for generating presets for anyone who needs KK to also be a preset librarian as well as a controller

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,758 Expert
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    Ok, it may have been a different test I did that worked....

    I did find that almost no plugins work with VST3 versions at all. There is a way I can make them work however, again almost every plugin has a completely different set of control IDs for the parameters that will need a whole new template made.

    I did a whole post on it but will be trawling through things and updating my site with what is and is not going to be updated. Times like this I am so glad I chose Windows as my primary workhorse and not macOS. The M1 thing will be problematic for YEARS to come and I am betting a few people will lose some progress with instruments that will never be M1 compatible.

    Anyway, if anyone wants to read up on the state of things (I wanted to release this before the update but was told by Matt I couldn't mention any of it) read it here:

    I would like to express the gratitude to the VERY few users that were in the Beta helping to test things and also express the sheer disappointment to those who have been on the Beta test list for years that have not bothered to invest any time in helping. It is because of this it takes so long for things to release and why issues are still discovered after release. If you are one of these people who take up a valuable position in the Beta but contribute nothing maybe request to be removed so more active and willing people can help out. I think only about 3 or 4 people bothered (myself and Kymeia inclusive of that) to post anything useful in testing.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,758 Expert
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    Open Betas are never a good idea for focused testing. Open Betas are good for wider spread cases but people make noise which is hard to cut through and in most cases users use open Beta platforms as a soapbox to voice their wishes and concerns instead of simply testing things that need to be tested.

    In saying this tho, the current state of the Beta is a joke from a user input stance. No idea who is on the Beta but input from those who are registered is almost non existent. NI need to wipe the slate of ALL testers from he last 12 months who have contributed nothing and reach out to the users asking to help (then make sure they actually do).

    I have enough things to do in a day but still try and invest a heap of time testing so users can have a better experience. Kind of feels pointless when you wake up to an inbox full of your typical blind user who has just updated and now nothing works!!!!!!!!! And of course that is my fault.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,758 Expert
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    As you have discovered, you still need Rosetta mode and will do for months to come.

    Also hate to pile on even more bad news for you but likely ALL your past projects will not work with the VST3 counterparts of most non-NI plugins either meaning that you will need to maintain Rosetta mode forever OR you will have to open every project and manually swap out the VST2 plugin for VST3 and resave (as a new version as you already practice) and of course any automation you recorded will also have to be redone.

    This is not an NI issue either mind you, this is the reality check of macOS and how it maintains compatibility with things. There will be many plugins that will simply never run under M1 native so you will be forced to drop them at some stage to move forward. Just the unfortunate state of things.

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 429 Guru
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    I've not been on the beta, at least for KK. That said, I'd be more than happy to give feedback, as I've done for other product before.

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 429 Guru
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    And without further ado...

    If you bought anything from Plugin Boutique in the last month, this might come in really handy:

    Lifeline Expanse Lite - VST 3 Multi FX

    This was a pretty simple one, so I just wanted to run through a test case - feel free to check it out, but do let me know if anyone has issues. In advance, I don't have Mac, so I can't test there, I'm afraid.

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