NKS Development Discussion
Comments
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Yeah that's something NI need to really action.
I know there are literally hundreds of users, i've been on the Beta for years and try contribute and test where I can but I also do a lot of Beta testing in other areas and run Beta programs and to be perfectly blunt, "people" in general are not good at being testers. Select people are, certainly, but many create more work than help since you have to ask so many follow up questions only to find out their issue is a support problem, not a bug as they report.
Anyway, maybe one day we will see some more active people of the Beta or simply accept the slow releases and variety of small issues
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I think you've hit the QA nail on the head @JesterMgee
To use videogames as an example (experience, rather than random), 80% of public beta testers will offer feature requests. 10% won't offer any feedback. 5% will complain it doesn't do what they expect and stop playing after 30 minutes, 3% will never take part, and 2% will offer some feedback.
On a closed beta, these numbers go down massively.
If we apply that same logic to an even smaller audience for music technology product, that's going to be a lot of people not giving any feedback whatsoever.
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Yeah it's not isolated to this Beta, it's common and the reason many companies have closed Betas for specialized software, that and also control of information getting out.
I have users that email me saying they are on the Beta and they know VST3 is coming etc but still I never see them actually post or even answer simple questions myself and others have. Some have even posted me issues direct and I have been really puzzled like why the hell aren't you posting that in the Beta channel man, i'm not one of your free lifelines to solve all your issues.
But I digress, would just be very handy to have some active users that could do a quick test and confirm a thing or 2.
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Amazing. Thank you.
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I recall on one of the threads that you were going to take a look at scripting the nksf (vst version) to nksf (vst3 version) - as opposed to rerunning preset creation. I had a quick look at one example and it didn’t look straightforward. Was that your conclusion?
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It's not straightforward or even proven to work on every library but it's what I have as a start.
It requires basically taking the newer info from a NKS preset saved as VST3 and injecting that into existing presets. This means taking plugin ID and also a new control map with new control IDs since most plugins it seems will differ here. This info needs to be unpacked from the NKS files and repacked again but this only updates the call to the plugin and it's not a given that the plugin data will work with certain plugins.
In some tests I have done it is working (Spectrasonics for instance) but there may be some that wont work which in that case I will need to basically re-rip all presets again and retag. If it comes to that I will code something that will at least take the tag info from existing files and inject that into new files so all I will need to do is re-run the ripping scripts for the plugins then update their info from existing but it's never that simple.
Rest assured tho I am working on solutions and have a number of fallback ideas to make things work.
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No point converting presets while in beta as some things were still being fixed and it may well have meant having to do it all again after release.
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Ok now im in Team Rosetta Forever! :D 🤠
Thank you for your answer and your thoughts. And I know this Problem from Apple, its a never ending Game of changes...
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Thanks for the insightful tips. For stuff that has been vst3 only I have previews etc from my Ableton pack presets and, it turns out, only half the stuff I have does not do the vst to vst3 automatically. Given the volume of things I have to update (I just do the stuff you don’t sell) the re-rip followed by some scripted tagging (or tweaks to the database) looks the way forward.
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Yep, there was hope that there was some kind of magical way to have VST3 plugins automatically just slot in place when VST2 was not available and this almost seemed possible.... However then I discovered the impossible problem that almost all instruments appeared to show completely different ID values for the same control between VST2/3 so even if it opens, the controls all don't work.
I still believe something is wrong there since every 3rd party plugin is doing the same but apparently this is explained as (paraphrased) "developers have not done the VST2/3 migration correctly so users need to contact developers"
In any case, not something we can simply hope will change, have to do what we always do and just press on and get things done.
Yeah there's gonna be a lot of additional work in many different ways. I've finally built a new blazing fast PC after 10 years so now have 3 workhorses to do processing and automated tagging (tho juggling most plugins that offer just 2 licenses is a bit of a challenge) so I have spent the time in the Beta just testing various different ways of carrying the data (mostly tagging) over from VST2/3. Some libraries can be easily converted, some need new templates and can then be converted and others need to be completely ripped and hopefully tagged using the existing tagging.... Oh how I hate the manual tag process, that's the main part that requires manual work if the plugins don't contain enough info to script tagging.
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Yeah the tagging procedure is the most painful thing. At this time i deal with db3 file export to csv and automate copy paste tags from vst to vst3 presets. I wonder if there is an easier way but I'm afraid not😓
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New Labs "Gaelic Voices"
Converted with VST3 plugin version and now works flawlessly, so i decide to reconvert all LABS in VST3 but it will takes me some days.
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To be honest I have a different perspective. Right now I'm extremely pleased, after waiting for so long, to have access to plugins like Plasmonic, Equator 2, Surge XT, Dawesome Novum, Padshop 2, Imagine, Quanta 2, KORG Wavestate and OPSix native, the Noise Engineering plugins (which are amazing!) and many more new plugins that are now almost all coming out in VST3 only, and on ARM Mac as we know VST2 is on its last legs anyway (probably Win too truth be told, it will just be a messier more drawn out process).
I'm also very pleased to have a super fast Mac Studio and super snappy (finally) Komplete Kontrol setup. Having all that I can live for a while without having a gazillion NKS presets from plugins that don't migrate (yet) at my disposal, most of which tbh I hardly use anyway. I make my own mostly anyway. In time most will be updated to migrate or someone clever enough like Jester will figure out how to convert them but tbh right now I'm over the need for KK to be an all encompassing patch librarian. It's a non stop Hamster wheel anyway - there's always more coming out. If I am really missing something it takes a second to resave that patch as a new NKS preset using the VST3 version, but for me KK has always been primarily about tactile and flexible hardware control of all my plugins anyway, and I have access now to many more of those (most of my favourites in the last 2 years are VST3 only). I am confident we will get native versions of Reaktor and Massive X within the next few months, and I am sure also that eventually more plugins will migrate but in the meantime I am happy playing with all the new toys that now run so fast.
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It depends on how you want to use the KK. I believe there is no wrong or right way, it just different ways to use it. For me it's very useful to have all the presets with previews especially for quite heavy plugins like Kontakt. On the other hand many times i use it as a sound design tool and i create my own presets. Of course i'm very happy too for the VST3 upgrade and i believe more cool things coming soon!
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Absolutely - I'm not saying there is a 'right way' but just opening up the possibility that there may be different ways of seeing the situation we are currently in - that there are big opportunities here, it isn't all problems
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