More information on future updates M+

troxx

So… no mention of allowing user Reaktor ensembles or Kontakt libraries in Maschine+, no mention of improvements to the sampler, no mention of improvements to Massive patch editing… but, 3.0 is a paid upgrade for what little has been announced along with what appears to be separate paid Maschine content with some multi sampled instruments, kits and 100 presets, 🤔 does this seem acceptable, considering how long customers have been waiting for improvements and bug fixes?

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/182987#Comment_182987

Now you feel what we (Controller / SW) users felt when the M+ came and became the new priority for 2 years or so….

It's astonishing to me that a workforce that can't handle the current workload makes more products only to make development even worst and slower… It's like taking on another job while you already have 2 and not extra time, how is that gonna work? Magic!?

The big difference being M+ users are waiting for 'a bit', for controller users it's many, many years… I'm sure the M+ will be the prio again eventually, probably 2 years after the current prio, such is the cycle that has hapenned over and over again.

olafmol

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/183052#Comment_183052

The only thing I can think of that explains all of this, is that NI is outsourcing their software development. The same way as they do with their expansion/sound-packs.

rcmusic35

Capture d’écran 2024-10-09 à 18.50.51.png

Maschine user since mk1 launch in 2009, then Studio, then MK3, then M+ (+ jam), really fed up with all this now.

I bought M+ because i thought NI would do what they say in the FAQ and would get some kind of freedom when not at home and then back to the studio: 100% compatibility!

Luckily, the Logo update firmware was free!

Happy i'm still using S49 mk1, not the same error twice.

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/183092#Comment_183092

Not sure considering all their proprietary stuff / intellectual property, wouldn't they be scared of having all their secrets in the hands of teams that could also work for the competition? A dev that works in audio world would need to comment if this is common or not, I am not an expert but I doubt it. If you're correct about that outsourcing strategy, then it for sure ain't working out great…

AFAIK they have an in-house sound design team and when it comes to Expansions it's a collaboration (in the cases where it's an artist based expansion), they need this in-house otherwise developing Kontakt instruments that needs tons of samples would be a major pain… Even if it's outsourced having external people proving samples is safe compared to just giving out your SW source code.

I wish, maybe this would lead to a 'JJ OS' moment for the M+.

HugoClubs

Highly doubt they outsource any coding work.

Contracts have timelines, and NI is always behind when it comes to development.

AdelV

Upon further reflection - I am still full of concern and probably even more so than before the October news was published. Maschine + will get an update in a while, will it improve this hardware enough to finally not feel like it is unfinished? That's what I don't know.

As I wrote in the thread about JAM - I'm letting go of the update and worrying about the soft and potential bugs. I'd like to record something and get into music more strongly. Hence, I have to use what I have now.

ozon

«Happy with what you have to be happy with - You have to be happy with what you have - To be happy with what you have» - King Crimson

tetsuneko

So Maschine 3.0 is coming out "in a few weeks". I'll be buying it, but will be sticking to 2.17 for all my musicing as usual, since project compatibility with M+ standalone & desktop is more important to me than bells and whistles and shiny new, slightly blacker UI. I'll be upgrading without the new content though, thanks.

What troubles me is the fact M+ is still stuck with Kontakt 6.5.. and now the Kontakt desktop is already on version 8! Soon, my macs will not be able to run Kontakt 6.5 due to having to update to a macOS version that is not supported by Kontakt 6.5 anymore.. Would be nice to get Kontakt 7 to M+ at the very least, in order to keep the OS woes at bay a while longer..

I just hope that M+ update with improved class compliance "kernel support" and latest Massive update (which opens up full editing of wavetables etc in standalone) will be a free update, and we'll see it before 2025. But seeing as it was first Kontakt 8 and now Maschine 3 taking the development spotlight, not getting too optimistic just yet..

Cretin Dilettante

Yeah, I'm wondering what NI's plan is w/ 3.0 & Maschine+ compatibility…how useful are half these features going to be if they don't come to the standalone unit? When Maschine was just a piece of software w/ a controller, it made a little more sense to omit certain features like "tempo per scene", since you could just host Maschine in a DAW. It's with the release of the standalone unit that such an omission became a huge deal (to me, anyway), since a standalone unit is implied not to require additional pieces of equipment to perform essential functions.

ozon

@Cretin Dilettante just imagine for a tiny moment that Tempo per Scene is a software only feature, because there’s no workflow for it on the hardware…

A related topic

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/37204/is-the-machine-plus-also-getting-this-big-software-update

MaikR

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/183745#Comment_183745

What puzzels me is one of the latest posts by @Simon_NI in the October 2024 update:

”Sadly, the architecture of the Kontrol Mk2 means we can't easily build direct integration with Kontakt. 

In the Mk2 what you're seeing on the screen is actually being rendered by the Komplete Kontrol software and sent over USB as images to be displayed on the device. Pretty crazy, but it works well. Adding the code/functionality to do that to Kontakt would add a lot of weight to Kontakt for an experience for a minority of Kontakt users (most people use Kontakt with non-NI controllers).

In the Kontrol Mk3, everything you're seeing on the device is being rendered on the device, and Kontakt is just sending metadata over USB. This is what made the direct connection to Kontakt possible.

This is ALSO why we don't currently have Maschine integration in the Kontrol Mk3. Maschine is still built on the old technical architecture which isn't directly compatible with the Kontrol Mk3. We have been working on this, and as mentioned in my post, a simple integration integration with the Kontrol Mk3 is coming as part of Maschine v3 software update in a few weeks.”

As that topic is closed, maybe the ’Chief’ is willing to explain this a bit further overhere, because I think this kind of transparency on these kind of design decisions and choices is very helpful information; especially if we can rest assure that M+ problems and integration with the latest and stable Maschine v2.0 (and Massive, etc.) on desktop will be fixed by the end of this year, too:

The firmware update for Maschine Plus will be free - to keep the product current. It is mostly bug fixes and some important kernel and audio interface handling updates.

So then there’s this shift in ‘architecture’, of which I don’t know how this relates to the Maschine Plus. As said before, the M+ will be compatible with the new Maschine 3.0 software. But what does that mean?

And, yes I’m willing to pay for a full upgrade, if it’s (an) option(al). So I’m not expecting a free ride there, also never asked for one. Completely fair that after such a long time an upgrade has to be paid for, but:

1. Is (or will be) the architecture of the M+ compatible with the new Maschine 3.0 software architecture when in Controller mode? It seems the software is changing, which makes is compatible with Kontrol MK3.
   
2. Will there be a port of Maschine 3.0 to the M+ to run it in Standalone mode, so project files remain interchangeable (hopefully even a bit better and easier) between the device and desktop?

Again, I don’t know how the current integration between Maschine Plus in controller mode can be compared to these differences between Kontrol MK2 and MK3… (?) but as the M+ has more onboard computing power then Maschine MK2, MK3 or Mikro, I would think that its software could be brought inline with the new Kontrol MK3 architecture. And yes, I would completely understand that this would be (part of) a paid upgrade, as it wouldn’t render this fine piece of hardware EOL.

D-One

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/183807#Comment_183807

Those are best questions I've seen so far...

I sure hope so, even tho I am usually quite cynical / skeptical I lean towards what you'd said in your last paragraph, can you imagine the backlash if people are required to wait/buy a new M+ HW model to be able to use this new architecture/gen for MAS v3? People would rage… badly.

The only thing the worries me a bit is I am not sure that while in Controller Mode the M+ is actually capable of using it's "onboard computing power" to circumvent the "architecture" issues that the KKS-MK2 had….

The reason I say this is because:

• I have tried removing the internal computer from the M+ to see what happens and it boots normally as an MK3/Controller… This doesn't prove anything, but it's a bit worrying in this context.
• KKS Mk2 and MAS-MK3 (which in a way is the M+) are the same generation.
• The Mk3 itself came out a while back, way before new people like Matthew were around (?) and made those 'architecture changes' direction; maybe at the time they already knew where they were heading and took measures to future-proof, but…. maybe not?
  

:S

ozon

These are indeed interesting questions. But more interesting to me is still, why it shouldn’t be possible to develop an adapter/bridge component which runs on the computer CPU, does the calculations of the Mk3 KKS onboard CPU, and sends images to the Mk2 KKS hardware — exactly like the Komplete Kontrol software does. IMO, this should be technically feasible — the question is only whether NI wants to offer something to postpone the EOL of legacy hardware. This strategy is applied in large companies all the time to integrate vital legacy systems with modern technology platforms.

Maybe the EU should enforce stronger motivation for companies to retreat from the planned obsolescence of their products.

Glenn

is there any way to join the machine 3 beta?

or anyone allowed to talk about more specific feature…

I really only care about internal midi routing … and filter incoming midi to record only certain channels