The Maschine 4 (Speculative) Thread

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  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,226 Expert

    Fun fact everybody always forgets: You never buy software, you pay for a license to use it as long as the vendor sees fit.

    So, if a vendor EOLs a licensed product, you may actually not be allowed anymore to use it, but that’s impossible to enforce. Therefore, paid subscription plans are much closer to the legal reality than buying licenses. Which is why, IMO, there’s nothing evil about subscriptions - they make licensing just more tangible.

  • Jiglo
    Jiglo Member Posts: 152 Advisor

    All this talk about piracy, yet, Native Instruments allow the resale of Expansions, so what's the difference between selling your Expansions individually, or selling them as part of a package with a M+?

    To me then, it's fine to sell a M+ with your Expansions.

    Also, if you own Komplete Collectors and we're talking hypothetically about a time when NI have ceased to exist (hopefully far into the future), then it's kind of a nonsensical situation of wanting to make unsupported software work with unsupported hardware. Seriously, does hypothetical and unlikely to happen stuff really bother people or are we just playing devil's advocate?

    You could always use the samples from your Collection anyway by putting them in your User samples, so not a total loss.

    Sorry, for going off topic people, but I just don't understand some of the point mentioned, for things being bad gear, or useless in a post apocalyptic time in the future, or most probably, at such a time when NI stop supporting updates.

    Looking forward to the next Maschine's (when they arrive) anyway😎

  • tempsperdu
    tempsperdu Member Posts: 254 Pro

    LostInFoundation

    Well…to be accurate…he said he will TRY to accommodate an AMA for Maschine MAYBE for the Q4. And IF they’ll have news to share. Last sentence that, having to deal with NI, makes me a little cautious.


    ozon

    Short answer: No.

    OK, these are the exact two quotes from Matthew:

    "And when we look into new features and improvements, we immediately hear about 100 different suggestions, many of which are good, not all of which we can do at once. TL:DR yeah let's have a larger Maschine conversation later this year and lurk in the forums in the meantime."

    "As I've said, we'll get a Maschine event of some kind scheduled, hopefully later this year when we have some stuff to talk about."


    So it's kinda inferred but yes, whether it actually transpires and when.... who knows.


    Given there's been absolutely nothing in any shape or form for many many months regarding Maschine, it's possibly not the best way to appease an already severely disappointed user base to continue the 'silence'

    In my 'imagination' which could more than likely be well wrong, they've actually realised that trying to cobble on 'flexibility' that its conception simply wasn't formatted to deal with, has resulted in throwing the baby out with the bathwater and ruined its speed and ease of use.

    Maybe the only way forward is to completely rethink Maschine which would be quite an undertaking, but then most I think would agree there's little point in producing new hardware without tackling its many problems and shortcomings.

    If they are actually facing Maschine head on and making difficult decisions, then bravo, but I still can't see how difficult it would be in the meantime to reinstate the legacy duplication as an option at least.

  • Murat Kayi
    Murat Kayi Member Posts: 428 Pro

    When I first heard of Native Instruments (not that long ago) you could constantly see these videos of NI's conventions, get-togethers and public presentations where they showed and demoed previews, talked in-depth about underlying technological concepts and welcomed exchange of ideas and all that. It looked really exciting. I looked forward to attend something like that some time in the future.


    Now compare that to the constant guesswork, obscure allusions and faceless digital maybe/maybenot of NI of our times...and it is quite sad, actually

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 265 Advisor


    Got The Maschine 7 Licence already in presale, just hope I'll live long enough


  • defyosef
    defyosef Member Posts: 34 Member

    Being quite positively surprised that the new Kontrol MK3 went the route of supporting Kontakt mapping directly (I had my suspicions after K7 added the new browser, but I wasn't convinced it's gonna happen so fast), I'm thinking what that could mean in the context of both decoupling Maschine integration from KMK3 and the Maschine MK4 development likely having to bear the weight of supporting NKS2 behind the scenes.

    My wild guess, based on the fact that KMK3 design principle is to be integrated with so many DAWs, that perhaps it could also mean that Maschine MK4 is going to have some of that direct Kontakt / DAW functionality as well.

    Meaning: Maschine MK4 could be heading towards being more of an instrument with multitracking and sequencing functionality, a "smart" groovebox if you will - rather than (sometimes) trying to compete with other DAWs themselves.

    With Maschine software either working as a VST plugin or even somewhat embedded solely on the hardware side (M+ is capable of already) and the selling point for it being:

    • the extended controls for DAW integrations (to make up for the missing parts of Maschine such as tempo automation, PDC etc) while keeping the sequencing capabilities of the Maschine itself
    • bells and whistles of the new screen capabilities
    • (future) hardware-side smart play functions
    • direct Kontakt integration for instrument stacking functionality (from DAW perspective)

    That would mean that the integration initiatives and all the work they entail for KMK3 can be shared (two birds with one stone).

    It would also satisfy people wishing for a smaller footprint NKS controller.

    This plays into a post I saw from someone from NI that mentioned, I think, that they aim to improve the workflow of "Maschine as a plugin" use-case. I may be misremembering it though.

  • wzdm.85
    wzdm.85 Member Posts: 67 Helper
    edited September 2023

    You could still add expansions to your SD Card and access them through User Files.

  • macchinista
    macchinista Member Posts: 28 Helper
    edited September 2023

    NI gets a lot of criticism, mostly because people can see the potential in their products, but the company never seems to come to realize it. Traktor and Maschine are two prime examples. They started by disrupting their market segments, had customers excited and invested but then lost momentum, got almost abandoned and allowed competitors to catch up and in some cases, surpass them.

    I have voiced my own criticism over time in these forums, but in all honesty, I can't be too mad at NI. I purchased their keyboards and various iterations of Maschine. The hardware has been mostly solid (aside from the few keys and knobs which stopped working), but I have gotten a lot of software and expansions for FREE. I purchased the Maschine 2.0 upgrade back in the day, and it's been FREE updates since then. Did they add what I wanted? Mostly no, but there's been slow progress and some of the small things introduced here and there make a big difference in terms of workflow. So I am grateful 🙏

    (just remember to wait a few months before jumping on the latest version and you'll be fine).

    If you learn to limit yourself, Maschine is actually one of the best groove boxes around IMO. Its biggest strength but also weakness is its versatility. Some people get lost and never find their way with it.

    I can't say much about M+. I knew it was not going to meet my needs, so I never bought it. I understand there is frustration with the lack of updates recently, although from general feedback online it appears that the M+ is a lot more stable now than at the start. So they have not dropped the ball (entirely).

    If NI wants to move the Maschine platform forward, I believe a software rewrite is necessary. So we'll probably see soon rather than later another version of the software with new hardware. It remains to be seen if old hardware will be compatible. All in all, I think there is reason to be mildly optimistic.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,729 Expert

    One case to show the “potentiality”: would you be happy if you buy a used Maschine+ from a user who owns only 2 expansions and you are forced to keep it under his account? While you own Komplete Collectors with all the expansions….which you can’t install cause you can’t put your account?

    If hypotectiall case NI Authorisation is down and one cannot reset M+... How would you use your KxU CE Expansions? If server does not authorise M+, it will not authorise Komplete.... Most probably.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,729 Expert

    @ozon

    Fun fact everybody always forgets: You never buy software, you pay for a license to use it as long as the vendor sees fit.

    No, that is completely false. Licences are mostly time unlimited, or limited to certain period month, year, or so.

    One has the legal right to use SW even if developer stops bussiness, dies, whatever.... One could even sue company if it uses antipiracy means and stops authorising its SW.... The user has the right to use it and developer cuts his rights....

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 3,964 Expert

    Yes you can sell expansions singularly or bundled with the M+. But not all the people who sell their hardware want to sell also their expansions. And not all the people buying an hardware want to buy also the expansions.

    Can you explain further what this have to do with not being able to use a M+ in case you can’t put your account anymore?

    About “hypothetical and unlikely to happen stuff”: you’re not with NI from long time, are you? Do you wanna buy my “centerpiece of NI workflow” abandoned Kore? Or my “the future of djing” D2s who has been put on EOL less than 2 years after their release? Or maybe you need my not anymore usable Rig Kontrol to use it as a doorstop?

    It’s not about playing the devil’s advocate…it’s about knowing who you are dealing with because of experience. Often, a bad experience

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 3,964 Expert

    So… I buy Maschine expansions cause they are already prepared for Maschine…to then use them as “normal” wav files?

    At this point, I could buy sample packs from everywhere else…no need for NI.

    In any case…no, you can’t still add expansions…you can add their wav files…which is not the same. They created expansions to make curated and prepared kits to use with Maschine. They are not only samples. They are already threatened with fxs chains for the sounds (which you can still manipulate), assigned parameters, choke groups, sampled instruments on pads, NI synths presets,…

    This is what makes them special…otherwise, we could simply go to Loopcloud and have a lot more of samples to chose from

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 3,964 Expert
    edited September 2023

    Yes, my reasoning was for the whole package. My critic is to the whole system of keeping us dependent from them. Of course the thing should be working for both sides: being able to reset the M+ AND install the expansions.

    If other companies (coffAkaicoff) give us a way to install the expansions from the computer and without being tied to an account, why shouldn’t NI do it? In my mind the reason is more than clear. If for others it is not the case, I’m happy for them

  • tempsperdu
    tempsperdu Member Posts: 254 Pro

    defyosef

    This plays into a post I saw from someone from NI that mentioned, I think, that they aim to improve the workflow of "Maschine as a plugin" use-case. I may be misremembering it though.

    I really hope they do take this tack and concentrate on the user experience, speed and ease of use. That's arguably the area that is lacking in some DAWs.

    Trying to turn Maschine into a DAW is IMHO a step in the wrong direction.

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