The Maschine 4 (Speculative) Thread
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So, yes, unfortunately you have to expect a product to also evolve in the „wrong“ direction.
And now you understand why I'm about to buy a huge amount of shares in pitchforks!!!!!😂
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Do you enjoy misinterpreting? Did I say any of that you mentioned.
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But that's the thing, I don't think anyone is willingly buying 'something they don't like', at all.
The idea that fixing obvious problems, rushed features that never mature, or lack of expected features, etc = A sw becoming something else is very strange to me. I can't imagine a world where Photoshop now looks the same as 10 years ago, Maschine does.
I guess it depends on what people are asking for but the top requests are mostly very reasonable. Hi-Res, performance recording, automation, etc... So there are reasonable expectations and silly ones, what separates the two is quite subjective, IMO for example to ask for MAS to be a DAW is an idiotic expectation / request.
DAW's do influence the production world tho, as they get major updates way more often than Maschine, which has only 2 Major versions in 15 years... Which is really kind of crazy. I am 99.9% sure the active user count has been dropping steadily with maybe an exception during the C19 quarantine.
Admittedly I don't need tempo automation, signature changes, and that sort of stuff, if I did I would have probably researched if MAS can do that 1st and never had gotten one, maybe this is the specific kind of thing you're referring to? If that's the case yeah, it's better to stop crying and move to something else, actually if anyone is crying for more than a few years, just move on I'd say.
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If that's the case yeah, it's better to stop crying and move to something else, actually if anyone is crying for more than a few years, just move on I'd say.
The unfortunate thing here is that Maschine is still possibly the best hardware controller for many people and as bad as Maschine (SW) has become there isn't AFAIK a good equivalent.
The really frustrating thing is users know how good it could be and cannot understand why NI don't or can't or even won't. This is compounded by them keep promising (sort of) to deal with the issues then not doing, or in the process, making them worse, as happened on the last half-baked attempt.
I, and probably many others, just don't get it. They've got a good product that could be a proper best in class and yet are prepared to let it atrophy into a could have been. Who 'wins' or even benefits? No-one, we don't Maschine don't and NI doesn't.
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It's not at all unreasonable to expect a groovebox to be able to automate tempo & time signature, and it's actually unreasonable to have to double-check when the screenshots clearly show temp & time signature as editable parameters, next to the timeline. I don't understand why this is still up for debate.
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Imho, music tech needs consumer advocacy groups & more regulation. Imagine gibson trying to sell you a one-stringed guitar as anything other than a joke, and then calling you entitled for wanting more strings or a whammy bar. Like bro it's not even a complete tool yet. I would understand the idiocy in expecting a Volca Drum or Electribe to be able to do tempo or time signature automation, and honestly, I didn't expect Maschine to do this either, up until they released a standalone device. Because..."why would they call it standalone if you need external gear to attain the full range of musical expression and articulation?", but here we are...
Honestly, maybe instead of outright regulation, companies should be legally obligated to put symbols denoting what the software/device can or cannot do...because if you market a groovebox and the screenshots show tempo/time signature as editable parameters, your customers cannot be faulted for assuming that those parameters can be automated like any other parameter. The Akai Force needed a little sticker on it that said "ONLY 4/4 TIME SUPPORTED OFFICIALLY" or something. All of these grooveboxes need a "No advanced articulation" sticker, or something equivalent. I'm tired of being blamed for deliberately misleading marketing, or lies by omission. All of this dumb ****** is why I'm going back to producing completely ITB.
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It's not at all unreasonable to expect a groovebox to be able to automate tempo & time signature, and it's actually unreasonable to have to double-check when the screenshots clearly show temp & time signature as editable parameters, next to the timeline. I don't understand why this is still up for debate
It may not seem unreasonable, but the way Maschine appears to have been constructed was for speed and ease of use. The paradigm that seems to have informed it meant that all the blocks had to align with each other, as we know, and that meant for clips to happen they had to be constructed as a layer on top of that to have any flexibility. I imagine that in order to get time changes within an actual piece, Maschine would have to be rethought and rewritten to get round the current restrictions. The signature is editable, but only on a per-piece basis, you just can't change it within one piece.
In the longer term, that would probably be the best way forward, but there's little evidence so far that NI have the will, or are willing to expend the resources that would entail.
As for Automation, that's one of Maschine's biggest drawbacks, and I fail to see why that wasn't a priority aeons ago.
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Yeah, I guess that's valid, not much competition in this segment does not help with the state of things... At least for hybrid setups, there's only really MPC/Force, Maschine an maybe Push. It's the same old news for us who have been here for a while, so I generally avoid ranting as no one will hear it other than our fellow users.
It's not the request or expectation itself that is unreasonable, it is expecting that out of 1000 things that specific request will happen within your lifetime considering how slow things have been. You're basically hoping to win the lottery... It's just super unrealistic. It's up to you, users asking for things does not bother me at all.... ask away 1 million times.
Yes, production software has a BPM and time sig, but that does not mean that what you're asking is easy, or should be a priority, the vast majority of users couldn't care less about that.
There are many things I care deeply about that others don't, if I keep screaming about it I'll prob annoy some folks.
I'm tired of being blamed for deliberately misleading marketing
Folks that are too harsh on you forget how often they bought something that didn't work as they expected, it's really super common... However when you keep repeating yourself every chance you get then you're going to get quoted and your view questioned... that's how it goes.
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Yes, production software has a BPM and time sig, but that does not mean that what you're asking is easy, or should be a priority, the vast majority of users couldn't care less about that.
For me, I try to look at it as can that be done without rewriting Maschine and can it be done already by using Maschine within a DAW or even as a feeder to a DAW and using resources to expand what Maschine might be good for?
NI atm seem to be rewriting everything with people who don't understand the actual products, their history and their users. I'd say that's even possibly feasible with really good communication, but that ain't happening.
As might be expected, the focus also seems to be not how can I make an outstanding product, but how can I maximise profits... just look at the travesty MPS has become, it doesn't even acknowledge users before the upgrades became laughable. I really doubt many see upgrading as worth the inflated expenditure, so that's possibly a loose loose scenario when everyone else is racing to the bottom price wise.
It is so sad seeing a once highly regarded company sink into a travesty chasing the $ without seemingly understanding why people spent their money on it in the first place.
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@tempsperdu said:For me, I try to look at it as can that be done without rewriting Maschine and can it be done already by using Maschine within a DAW or even as a feeder to a DAW and using resources to expand what Maschine might be good for?
I guess that's what I would do If I needed variable tempo, either run MAS as a plug or have something feeding Automation to it, synchronized via Link or MIDI Clock - Or, I'd just use something else completely that has the features I want.
Tempo auto/modulation, tempo per scene, time sig per scene, etc are all nice things to have and I don't particularly see adding those as investing in something MAS is not good at, it would make the product better but to me, it seems like a huge time investment for something only a tiny portion of the userbase wants.
NI atm seem to be rewriting everything with people who don't understand the actual products, their history and their users.
It does feel a lot like that for MAS specifically, for other products I don't notice that disparity.
As might be expected, the focus also seems to be not how can I make an outstanding product, but how can I maximise profits...
As critical as I am I don't see it quite that way, NI could release a MAS controller every year with minimal improvement and people would buy it, as well as paid SW upgrades if they wanted. Heck, I'd happily pay for better SW.
I feel like I am overpowering this thread and talking too much, imma let yall continue and take a break
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All I ask is version parity with the desktop version with regards to Kontakt & Reaktor, and zero crashes ie bulletproof stability. Maschine is already quite a capable product, what it can do outweighs what it cannot do in my opinion
Now if we get automation editing and the ability to record performances into the Arranger, I would be ecstatic, but priorities are the ones I listed above
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Keep Hope alive! Lol
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hahaha, we just have to believe that it will be better than it is now)😂
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Going back to original post of the “MataDAW”, I wonder if it is actually MetaDaw..?? With the new keyboards not integrating with Maschine it would make sense that a new independent DAW is what links all NI hardware together but will still operate independently of the DAW with their respective software.
The term Meta…..”derives from the Greek μετά, which encompasses a wide array of meanings, such as "with", "after", "alongside", "on top of" and "beyond".
Wouldn’t that make sense?
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