Maschine 3.0 General Discussion
Comments
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I think the flaw is with you polling all sorts of users without discriminating between use-cases, and also not committing to a certain approach to what Maschine should be.
For me this (the fact that a new major update didn't allow Maschine to catch up with MPC and other ‘bring/edit your own samples’ grooveboxes) is a sign that you are not committed to it being that thing.
It also shows not clear vision in product development: What am I supposed to do with my stems if I cannot consolidate stereo channels into one mono channel (have you yourselves ever stem-split a song with heavy panning? I think you probably have not…), and if I cannot warp individual bits from my splits without having to resort to the crudest of workarounds?
This is typical cart-before-the horse behaviour of a product team that doesn’t really now what to do (and was probably told to do something ‘major’ for looks and cutting ties with older hardware).
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Made a nicer icon based on the splash screen
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Just was disappointed at first:
- Kontrol MK3 Integration should at least use all knobs that are still left. I mean, I especially bought it because I expected it to work good with Maschine very soon. Take all from one vendor and get a perfect workflow. This is how it works with Apple for example and probably others.
- Still no logically consequent Audio Clips. MIDI clips play different stuff depending on their timeline. Audio clips however will always just play the same. If we had that, we suddenly had basically Audio Tracks.
Being disappointed I tried to cook in Logic for a couple of days. All these features, AI drummers. Logic Remote on iPad. But in the end all drums I tried sounded so bad. Using a trackpad is so uninspiring. Found out that KOMPLETE KONTROL also falls short sometimes. You can't use it just for putting fx on a track. Would love to use the browse feature whenever I can.
And then I pulled Maschine back from the shelf. …And it was so good.
The problem for me is: Maschine will never be able to work nice with a DAW. Because it's too complex for that. And once you get hooked to Maschine you just wanna do everything with it. For me it's really easier Audio recording what is missing. Vocals, Guitars etc. Recording longer performances- Not just sampling. Recording with hearing live fx. Directly as a checkbox or something. I mean this cannot be so complicated. And the better Audio Clips. And Id bee happy.
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Maschine 3 update should have been free for M+ purchasers, who paid over 1200 bucks to buy the now largerly discounter unit.
I don’t want to disregard the development efforts and hence value to this update, but NI needs to change their policy with their early adopter customers. If NI is still there, it is probably thanks to them, but they are losing many these customers right now.
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It will be free for the M+.
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I mean the bundled Maschine software for M+ users, not the upcoming compatibility firmware.
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are we still making a fuss about 29$?
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The sense of entitlement is strong with this one!
"Fuel should be free for me because I bought a Rolls Royce"
"I should get food free because last week I bought a steak"
🤣
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I’m more irritated by the pricing strategy of NI which consists of systematically releasing a product (although good products in general), at a very high price initially then not too long later cut price 40 to 50% if sales aren’t good enough.
They should release the product at the good price to start with, at least that would not irritate early adopters and there is better chance the sales are good enough from the start.
Of course I don’t care about the $29, it’s not a lot, but by principle it is incorrect to their loyal user base. The users who were not early adopters 40% less and that includes the V3 upgrade.
I’ll probably pay for the upgrade, as I appreciate the value of it, but I’ll know that it’s not worth being an early adopter/supporter with NI 🤷♂️ So I’m just questioning the strategy of NI pissing off their supporter base.
It’s not only NI, and I know there is a price of being early adopter and be first to have the new thing etc… But at NI I find it’s been quite exaggerated. Ask those who bought Traktor D2 for example, to see not too long later that the price was slashed half and product was discontinued.
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They could spin off a Drum Machine plug-in with the Drum Synth Engines integrated - similar to what Steinberg has done with the Drum Machine in Cubase 14.
Beyond that, the Sampler in Komplete Kontrol could have been improved with tech from Machine to make it a viable option there.
I don't see them investing much into developing software like REAKTOR, BATTERY, MASSIVE X, etc. moving forwards. I consider that stuff basically abandonware - legacy software.
They're all about content packs (Expansions) and Kontakt Instruments (Complimentary Play Series, More Pianos/Guitars and Cinematic Instruments)...
For me, Bitwig is the future as far as using my Maschine controllers is concerned. They have great support for them. I don't really use Maschine 2 anymore, won't be upgrading to Maschine 3, and don't even keep Komplete installed on most of my machines. Just my desktop workstation, because I'm too lazy to run 150+ uninstallers and they have a history of bugging out and wiping out huge sections of the Windows Registry (forcing me to reset machines due to how much breakage that causes).
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C'mon Son!? 4-5 times a year FREE over 12 years….Updates or Fixes. We got CLIPs instead of Linear Arrangement (or least Waveform/MIDI in SCENEs) and Audio Module, preciate' it. But when we found out 2.9.x updated to 2.10.x the HYPE died…..Covid, YouTube algorithm and MPC users made us FIEND for 3.0 …R.I.P Maschine 2.xx.x
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Honestly, I don't think MK3 integration is a big deal.
The issue, to me, was that there was no decent warning, so by the time the MK3 released most MK2 stocks were gone and the people who cared had a hard time finding any.
If they had kept MK2 in limited production, this would not have been a problem. The people who cared about Maschine support would have just gotten the MK2.
This issue is also exacerbated by teh fact that Maschine Software doesn't really allow mapping 3rd party controllers, the way Akai MPC Software does (and many DAWs). If it did, we'd already have mappings for a host of other controllers and there would be very few complaints about this. The fact that NI's ecosystem is a walled garden exacerbates these issues.
It's like when Apple drops support for hardware or APIs that obsolete software as a result. That is problematic there. Meanwhile, people on Windows are still installing drivers developed for Windows XP/Vista and using the same hardware (or software) with zero issues.
There are benefits to the way they do things, but there are also deficiencies.
Your issues wiht Logic are personal. The DAW is not the root of your inability to design good sound, nad no one forces you to use a trackpad to control logic. You can use a Magic Mouse or any PC Mouse with a Mac. Of course all laptops come wiht a trackpad built-in. That is not a Logic-specific issue. You'll have the same issue on any PC Laptop… unless you use a mouse.
Personally, using a trackpad on a laptop makes my wrist hurt after 30 minutes or so. I generally use a mouse on both my MBP and my G14, whenever possible.
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This is common with software developers - PARTICULARLY in the Music Production Space.
They capitalize on the FOMO at release time by getting full price on upgrades.
Once the initial revenue has paid for development, the product becomes high-margin and they switch to a perpetual promotional pricing model; as almost the entire pricing of subsequent sales are profits.
UA does this (when is the LUNA Bundle not on sale, these days?). NI. PA. XLN. Akai. AIR. Arturia. UVI. IK Multimedia. iZotope. Output. MAGIX. UJAM. East West. Spitfire. 8Dio.
Et cetera.
You are describing almost the entire production market.
The only companies that don't do this are those that have risen to dominate (to a large extent) their target market segments: Steinberg, Ableton, Avid, Fabfilter, Xfer Records, etc. Those companies don't need to exploit this because their standing as Industry Standard Solutions basically gets tons of people to run to them, anyways… So, they'd only lose money by doing this.
The others are wingmilling to stave off competitors in the middle or at the bottom of the market. Pricing is very effective there due to the demographics and market segments they're targetting.
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I believe those who dominate their target segments came there because they respected their loyal users. I mean, you can add Inline Music (FL Studio) to the list, the strategy of all time upgrades is very good and they brought cloud features to continue monetizing those customers who are the most engaged to the platform. You can add Arturia and many many other companies who ended up succeeding by following the exact opposite strategy of NI.
For me NI has the wrong pricing strategy,
- it does not respect user loyalty, while keeping current user base is key to growth,
- they kind of recognize very quickly their products has less value, even though sometimes it is not the case. Maschine+ is worth much more than it is priced right now under massive rebates (I've seen some resellers in EU having it selling new at 800€ !)
- the initial extremely high price, will always work for a category of early adopters, but they represent a minority, selling the unit at the right price from the beginning would help in sales in the long term
- the result of the above, generates the fact they then need money to keep a product alive in terms of updates. If that doesn't happen we end up with products abandoned in terms of development or prematurely discontinued or put in obsolescence (I guess I don't have to elaborate on recent Machine mk2/mk1 news, Maschine Jam or practices in the DJing lineup)
I know I started this discussion wrong by pointing the $29 bucks for the update, but it was the bit too much that makes me now believe it's not worth being an early adopter for NI anymore as I've been in the past. There's been a time I owned pretty much any product NI made, now I'm basically trying to rely the less possible to the brand. I alone won't change anything for NI's business, what worries me is that I am not the only.
1 - it does not respect user loyalty, while keeping current user base is key to growth,
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My case. I bought MK3 and I couldn't accept that I can't do whole Music till the End and a Master. I check Track and eventually I rise Volume but that's it.
Maschine Plus is Amazing Music Production Box.
Samples like Professionals use them we have more than enough.
Instruments are great and FX too, they are simple but that's what is making them suitable for combination and achieving Authentic Results. Saturation is Fantastic.
#1. Automation/Modulation is long time request and as I use Lock States and usually two or three stages per Project.
I would rather present Lock States on linear Time Line in Patterns Song Mode or Clips as a Feature but I would add different time measurement transitions- Last as Note when it's long or 16/1 , 1/1 ,1/8 ect.
#2. Sampler needs at least two more start points/Play heads with separate pitches.
Separate Tempo per Scene can be MIDI stretch and probably Different Morphing time on a same Sampler.
Costume Chords can be created using one sound on a Group and rest of 15 Pads can be linked to trigger different notes and that's it, adjust your Chords.
Whatever NI do just make it stable on Maschine Plus.
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