Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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Thank you @Matthew_NI .
But... we absolutely do have a boatload of great feedback! And are already acting as promised in my earlier posts (most imminently with browser resizing).
I believe you. And as long as NI regularly shares its data mining results, I will leave my data collection turned on...at least until KK 3 and KK MK3 reach a "steady state".
But having said that, let's please not let @JesterMgee 's concerns be forgotten. Native Instruments cannot ever ever EVER let its modder community become disillusioned to the point where they abandon the platform.
Just like any gaming community, computer hardware, or automotive enthusiast community, having a healthy modder community will be CRITICAL to NI's future fortunes. Native Instruments' leadership at all levels should never forget that. I've known it for many years, even before I became a leader. The best teams I've ever led were those with top-notch technicians who could figure out how to modify and enhance code...on disk and in memory, even. Employees or not, we need to recognize the people who make us successful, and we need to not scare them off.
We need our JesterMgees!
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We do need them. He's done incredible work. And I want to make sure that is ultimately still supported moving forward. For the work he does, KK3 isn't there yet.
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Just a teaser... here's KK 3.1 in beta. Obviously the browser can be whatever size you'd like vertically or horizontally, this just happens to be how I have it set.
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And if you select a preset, just click it and then use the arrow key to scroll down how does that work? does the selection bar hit the end of a column, go back up and then as the list progresses it moves horizontal?
Will there be any plans to bring back both bank and sub bank selections? I really would like to know if this is planned to be bought back or is another feature to be disposed of (may have been mentioned but I am rarely on the forums now)?
Are there any plans to allow both the preset browser and the plugin GUI to be used at the same time?
I think we understand "things are coming" but having been told that in the past and still waiting on these things 10 years later, now being at the start of the whole process again, as I explained in our conversation these are things that currently are a concern and of course there will be happy users, that is great, they should be off with their toys and leave the people to discuss the things that we find are not working as hoped. When stating that "the majority of people statistically are happy based on sales figures compared to feedback... it is only a minority of users unhappy" is a real kick in the guts TBH and a good example of how we are perceived. Not as important feedback but as a minority of unhappy, grumpy and troublesome users. Irrespective if that was the aim of the comment, that is how it reads to me, unless we can rally 10,000 others to sing the same tune, we dont matter and will just learn to love it.
Resizable browser is great, the design and fonts (not the logo font, that is still terrible) are a good update, there ARE good things to be had, but what would really be nice to see at least is acknowledgement of the concerns some of us have and discussions around how this could possibly be improved rather than just having things decided and thrown at the wall, after all this single thread is a 500 page feedback thread and while your data may show everyone (the statistical majority) is happy, show me other threads for a single product generating this much banter??? This thread has not left the main forum page since release and many users in here are long time, experienced users I would personally listen to based on their experience who all seem to have similar things to say. THAT should matter.
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@JesterMgee: And if you select a preset, just click it and then use the arrow key to scroll down how does that work? does the selection bar hit the end of a column, go back up and then as the list progresses it moves horizontal?
An arrow key will take the selection down to the end of first column, then as continued being held will move to the next column and downward... continuing to the end of found presets/columns..
It works smoothly and is very pleasant to use IMO.
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@JesterMgee: ....of course there will be happy users, that is great, they should be off with their toys and leave the people to discuss the things that we find are not working as hoped.
Feedback can be both positive and negative.
This thread belongs to ALL who want to say something about KK3.
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Yeah, respectfully I am not interested in how easy you find it (I know nothing NI can do is wrong in your eyes), it is not how I like to scroll through lists in any application, nor does 99% of any application present lists this way and I am sure I am not alone, there are valid reasons for this (such as how the selection bar remains in a SINGLE point when scrolling and how fast one can scan results for a match, problem or specific character).
This is also not even a big thing I am concerned about as I can adapt, just an example of (IMO) strange design choices. My other points are far more pressing and important as reflected by numerous other threads on the subject!
Additionally, I think we all get how much you love the new software and workflow, almost deliberately intensively so and it seems you are almost offended when anyone does not share your love of the product, how much you gush over every update and post about every aspect. I am glad you are able to find your happiness in what is offered along with those that also find the way it all works, I wish I could be as happy as that honestly, but there are actual deliberate reasons I am not and it is not just because it is "different", same reasons others are not happy and it may just be that you have never worked in the same way or invested the same amount of time in how something works. If you switched on your mac, did an update and discovered it was now running Windows I am sure that would not please you, this is literally no different as the changes are that drastic.
While I know things are in development, we "may" see improvements nothing is ever known and when you cannot determine something moving forward, you have to fall back on past experience and that is a 10 year void of little to no development, improvement or anything anyone asked ever being implemented, that does not lead to consumer confidence until some action is seen, so while I hope to the gated heavens we see some actual substantial improvements, I hold reserved in my expectations and will continue to remind of these shortfalls.
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The biggest thing I don't understand about this release is why it has to do a complete plugin scan when trying to open it. Over the last two releases, I still haven't been able to get a proper installation, in spite of waiting three hours for the opening to complete. Yes, I have an awful lot of plugins, but most other programmes complete in an hour, and why does it seem to be unable to use the previous scan results from earlier editions?
I'm getting the impression that the 'current' NI has no cognizance of product history, user familiarity, ease of use, yet these are incredibly important issues to many users.
This stretches to even supposedly simple things like the logos. Admittedly, they were arguably looking a tad dated, but a refresh that acknowledged ease of use, and history would surely have been preferable. Long term users in most cases didn't even have 'recognize' the logo, the colour did enough. Now I just see letters all on a black background that don't properly register, and why is KK marked as KO, which many would easier read as meaning Kontakt?
As I've mentioned earlier, I haven't really used KK, as I am mainly a Maschine user, but the impression I had of it was that it was just a low resource wrapper to enable users to use NI products on a keyboard. I don't immediately understand its current objective, it seems ridiculously cluttered. Wouldn't it be better to have what seem like the two 'approaches' separate and accessed by a tab, so users who preferred the 'original' approach could do so, and those wanting the pseudo Kontakt approach could do so without having much of the space taken up by the original input panels.
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Very valid points!
It should not need to do a full plug-in re-scan every time, but it would benefit from doing a full plug-in re-scan via the standalone application once after a new install or update. Three hours is really really long - that would suggest something is wrong, or there's a variable we should look at. How many plug-ins do you have? Does it hang on specific ones? Feel free to PM me if you want to get into diagnostic details. Also, no worries if you'd rather not.
I can understand why you'd have that impression as well, perhaps for two reasons. 1) There are products yet to be revised (e.g. Maschine), and until they are, users may feel abandoned and 2) The first big updates in years (Komplete Kontrol 3 software or Kontrol S MK3 hardware) are at the crest of a big tech transition, involving some larger than usual changes (and in some cases, missing legacy features). I don't expect you to simply trust me or the team based on words, until you see more actions, but hopefully it's a little reassuring for you to know that the team behind KK and MK3 is mostly old timers, with a small number of newer members such as myself (I joined 1.5 years ago). So we do carry with us the product history, and a sense of user familiarity. And I know some of the leaps forward are not without tradeoff, albeit temporarily.
Regarding branding, I don't claim to the be the expert myself. I do support what the marketing team are trying to do though. Suffice to say, you may see more Kontakt (or KT) products in future, and also Kontrol (or KO) products in future beyond the ones you already know of.
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Also, as @JesterMgee is right to point out - once browser resizing is knocked off the list, some of the next-most pressing items on the KK side would include other browser features (such as Tag Editing, Sample Drag+Drop).
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I updated to 3.0 and the VST2 version disappeared and ruined many projects. I saw it was a common issue, and that downgrading to 2.9.4 would work. I deleted KK3.0 and installed KK2.9.4 version, but the VST2 does not appear in Ableton anyway. I also tried the 2.9.6 version, but it doesn't work either. How do I get my vst back and save my projects? Ableton shows that it scans the KK2.9.4 version, but it doesn't appear in the VST list.
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Thankyou those are the biggies for me
But also please bring back sub banks as well as banks (and make it possible to edit as well as see them)
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I can understand why you'd have that impression as well, perhaps for two reasons. 1) There are products yet to be revised (e.g. Maschine), and until they are, users may feel abandoned and 2) The first big updates in years (Komplete Kontrol 3 software or Kontrol S MK3 hardware) are at the crest of a big tech transition, involving some larger than usual changes (and in some cases, missing legacy features). I don't expect you to simply trust me or the team based on words, until you see more actions, but hopefully it's a little reassuring for you to know that the team behind KK and MK3 is mostly old timers, with a small number of newer members such as myself (I joined 1.5 years ago). So we do carry with us the product history, and a sense of user familiarity. And I know some of the leaps forward are not without tradeoff, albeit temporarily.
Firstly thanks for getting back, and promptly 😀
I will PM you about the scanning.
I consider myself a newbie, having only been around for about 5 years, long after Kore and its 'history'.
There are some that have been around from the beginning, presumably Generator.
When NA2 was in beta, it became apparent that the coders had no clue about NA 1 and didn't even seem to be aware of its existing functions. There presumably was something that appeared to be a 'good reason' for starting from scratch again, but even now, it's still a bit flaky in some areas and I can't think of anyone in the user base that is pleased about using it as an advertising hoarding. There are still a large number apparently using NA1 because it 'does what it says on the tin' efficiently, although you can't get updates. Apparently some are even unaware there is an NA2 because it didn't come up in NA 1 as an update.
Things seem similar with Kontakt and I don't even want to think about what might eventually happen with Maschine given that the last updates damaged, if not almost destroyed its readability, speed and ease of use which were for many its main advantages.
Whilst it's great that NI finally seem to be trying to imagine and build for a future rather than playing catch up under duress, I feel it should respect workflows and readability that many have got used to over the years. I don't think many will complain if there are obvious advantages to any updates, but if they are going to lose functionality for what seems like no apparently beneficial reason or be faced with a release that seems like an ill-considered beta, which the current version of KK does, that just needlessly antagonises people.
I am very scared that usability and overall user experience are lower down on the list than perhaps would actually benefit the user.
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Are there any plans to bring back the ability to show the plugin and browser at the same time? I see lots of "whats next" about browser size/resizing, but nothing about the entirely different paradigm of showing both at once. That was the easiest workflow to load a preset, tweak some of the knobs on the performance screen to see if it could quickly get where you need to go, then load another if not. All on the same screen at the same time. Now it's flipping back and forth and losing context of what plugin or instrument is even loaded. Regardless of minor improvements on the roadmap, would it be possible to offer the previous navigation mode.
It seems to be one of the most common issues alongside other feedback in the forum.
Explicitly: *not* iterative improvements on memory, or resizing, or tagging, or categorization that are planned for and devs haven't had time for, but a return to the entirely different and more usable browsing workflow?
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Yep, that is a highly appreciated feature that has been requested by many users already since it has disappeared from KK. It was essential for staying in a good workflow. Unfortunately, I have not seen any clear confirmation from NI that this „extended view“ has also made it into the „To-do list“ of topics planned to return finally. We can only hope that feedback is taken seriously by NI. For me personally, this option would even be the next logical step after introducing screen resizing (which has been announced to be available in next KK version already).
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