Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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I'm reiterating this just to remind people that we're here, we did things for a reason, even if those things are not universally popular, and that I don't expect to be given much grace or patience until we've followed up with the things we said we'd follow up with, but that we are actively working on that (see beta comment above).
It's very hard not to see the current state as an unadmitted public beta that should have been better thought out and resolved prior to hitting the public.
There doesn't seem much recognition for those that find some of the rebranding or workflow changes as being inferior to what they are replacing.
I doubt anyone minds if things change that are seen as changes for the better, but there is no small amount of consternation in this thread and elsewhere that changes throughout the range are not factoring in existing things that were / are working for many users.
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We've been criticized for not updating our software enough in the past, now we're criticized for updating it continually post launch 😁
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You wouldn't have had to... if the job had been done properly in the first place...
.... well, someone had to say it... 🤣
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When I reflect as a long time KK software and hardware user, I feel that I invested in a platform that received oddly little general improvement to the software and hardware over the life cycle of my S88.
Now there is the shiny new S88 on a whole new platform with software that will certainly take some time to get to the point of being "polished".
I can certainly appreciate/understand why KK development team would be criticized for not updating the platform with general improvements in the past. But please don't spin this as if you are being criticized for updating it now. You are doing that out of necessity. But you ARE being criticized by some for releasing the software prematurely which is perfectly understandable, if not justifiable. You should just own that, dust yourself off and keep communicating like you have been. It is good leadership which certainly was not present before you. Enough said.
Regarding KK3.0 release...
Personally speaking, 3.0 "resource crashed" my system and it was unusable/unstable. But each update was an improvement thus far and it is now usable for me. I use 3.0 now for one reason. I want to get the new S88 for one reason.
Funneling every plugin through KK container uses a massive amount of much needed resources but I have no choice if I want full keyboard functionality. (real world example/comparison:) I can load 30 instances of KK with various instruments and several of those being BBC Core and use 20-30% of my DAW's available resources. I can direct load a full BCC Core template with 250 instances the Spitfire plugin and use 6-9% resources but my S88 is in midi mode and so I have ZERO keyboard integration).
If I understand correctly, the new platform currently allows basic keyboard functionality by direct means (light guide support in particular) for all NKS2 compatible plugins/instruments and that is what I am after most of all. I understand that over time, additional direct keyboard functionality will be added.
So I certainly appreciate and support the overall direction being taken with the new platform even though I feel leery about investing in the new platform due to past experience.
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Herein lies the difference of opinion.
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@MyStudioOne the new platform does allow for direct integration with Kontakt 7 as well as Komplete Kontrol, but it does not directly integrate with other VSTs. Those still need to be loaded in KK.
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In the five or so years I've been using NI products, NI's attitude towards its customers went on a steady but very purposeful decline to almost beyond abysmal, especially for Maschine users, a fact pretty much acknowledged by NI itself, not that it made much difference.
The entity currently known as NI could be considered as somewhat 'fluid' I guess, and some naively thought perhaps that investment would bring about something resembling a rebirth or invigoration, whilst the more cynical thought... oh dear...guess where the focus is going to be.............................kerching.
So far, as much as some might see some moves as possibly optimistic, the seeming realisation that the sprawling mess could do with some consolidation and design cohesion for instance, there is a glaring lack of consideration for brand history and usage. We have had beta programmes and all your questions answered on at least some of the programmes, though it's often hard to see any feedback really being taken into account.
People want to feel confident about going forward with NI, but if you peruse the various forums, there's actually understandably a lot of cynicism regarding current ventures, especially from longer term users, some who have given up completely.
If we look at the current state of things, nuking support for Maschine in the MK3 keyboards, dropping support for the MK 1 keyboards, incredibly flaky releases for NA, Kontakt and now KK, Maschine completely AWOL with nothing to indicate anything useful on the very, very distant horizon. The nuking of Komplete on disk, and arguably a less value upgrade, the huge increase in price for a lot of users for iZotope's MSP which no longer even acknowledges anyone having a release prior to 4. The thinking that including bits of the iZotope and PA catalogues as part of Komplete and others, without recognising whether users already owned them, and things just seem like a garbled confidence reducing mess.
OK, fair enough, it's a huge undertaking to try and amalgamate the various entities now under the same umbrella, and I'm sure most expect it to take no small amount of time and effort, but people want to see signs that are more encouraging than disturbing.
So yes, it's very glib to say you are criticised for not updating the software enough because even NI acknowledged that was the case, but updating it as flaky betas showing little understanding of usage or user interaction and releasing them as proper products is not a viable answer to that criticism as can be seen by this thread.
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Well indeed - therein lies the difference of opinion though.
I do not believe KK3 to be a flaky beta.
It's a wonderful product on the precipice of a big technology overhaul, unblocking all manner of topics such as resizing, which had long been requested, and are now able to receive continued attention.
Not every feature has yet been or will be brought forward, and there's understandable feedback with regards to certain features. But that isn't the same thing as what you'd call flaky beta. Potato potato, I suppose.
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Ok, I give in, I'm really off now... bye...
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Bring back the patch browser side list. I HATE having to toggle between plugin and browser view
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They already said they will not do this, sadly.
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Well, not to give any false hope.. but I believe what was said is that simultaneous view of browser and plugin was not planned. Not quite the same as will not be done.
But in any case, if somehow a simultaneous view would come back, I would want a better layout than the old browser side list.. THAT was a poor design IMO.
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I'm sorry that I can't help you to your satisfaction.
I will continue to be clear about why we've done what we've done, the near and long term benefits of doing it, and also continue to be clear about the features we have prioritized and are upcoming next.
All that can be done, is that we put the information out there, so that people can understand it, even if not every decision is appreciated. At least we can keep the dialogue open and honest, which as I've heard was lacking in the past.
I understand that a few of you are particularly upset. And some of that might be a difference of opinion, but hopefully you'll see in due time that the updates we continue to bring help get at the root of your frustrations, even if the near term has affected you perhaps more than most users.
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Every time i open my mouth in this thread i get negative comments, such as "i don't care for the other user" and so on... (but, why should i care if what you asked for is against what i want and against my productivity? this, no one answered it!).
But i will say it once more, because really guys, you deserve some positive feedback!
So, for 3rd or 4th time. I like a lot the new design! Just bring back some NKS-related functionality and perhaps add some more, and we are fine (not all of us obviously, but that's life).
Thanks for your patience to explain things that obviously just few members read (and perhaps fewer understand)... 🙏
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- Regarding NI's attitude to it's customers, I agree more than people might realize. Until two years ago, I myself was a user, rather than an employee. But, since joining, and with the help of a fantastic and passionate team, I've tried to help the collective effort to change this. Yes, there are some bumps in the road, especially when making necessary but large technological transitions, however, you may count on me to continue participating in these forums, with a focus on dialogue.
- Regarding the lack of consideration for brand history and usage, I can't change your mind, but I can say that internally, nothing is further from the truth. As I write, my second monitor has up a 5 year roadmap full of exciting milestones for existing and new customers, which has not happened in some time. What we plan to do has everything to do with respect for history, and improving current usage. I absolutely must acknowledge though, that some changes might not always be well received by 100% of users. KK3 is a good example. Hundreds of thousands of happy users generally don't take to the forums to complain, but nor is it good to have p*ssed off hundreds of power users. Ultimately, actions will speak louder than words, so I hope our actions change your mind with time.
- Maschine feels AWOL... because we have been AWOL. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. Aside from smaller maintenance updates (including two updates today, one for Maschine software, the other for Maschine+), there has been very little communication, and no larger free or paid updates. The first major communication that community received in years was the deprecation of the Maschine integration with the new Kontrol S MK3 keyboard. Understandable then, that users would ask ever more existential questions. It's fine and dandy that the integration persists with MK2, but the questions are "what's to come?". I cannot say as much on the topic of Maschine as I would like, just yet. But what I can say is that 2024 is likely to bring some improvements, albeit not until later in the year. We'll continue to invest in improving the new technology stack the underpins Kontrol S MK3, and this will ultimately benefit the existing (and new?!) Maschine software and hardware. I am painfully aware though, that this won't happen soon enough for some.
- Really my only point of contention, if we can call it that, is that we've little understanding of usage or user interaction. Granted, I'm referring very specifically to my domain, and less so to any frustrations you may have with Native Access and product/account amalgamation. I think what you're seeing as a lack of understanding, is perhaps the (still unpleasant, and in some cases temporary) side effect of data informed prioritization. Given a need to focus, and progress, we've done so relentlessly, and this can appear cold, unhelpful and frustrating, when the issues we've not yet prioritized affect you, or change your preferred workflow for the worse. So it's less that we don't understand what users want or do, and more that with six to seven figures worth of active users, not every decision is universally popular. As I'm sure this response of mine may not be.
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