Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
-
"If only promises are made, but week after week is passing by without observing any progress, these kind of customer complains will never end. "
That is all well and good if you really have nothing else to do - and want to sit here in the forums and complain about this KK3 debacle week in and week out.
But I bought my NI tools to be creative and get some work done. I could really care less if/when NI decides to get their act together and give us a KK3 that is actually feature and function complete AND builds upon the years of usage we already had (and I still have) with KK2.9.6
I said my two bits on the state of KK3 - and I am very confident that NI is now keenly aware they have a dud on their hands (when compared with KK2.9.6) - but the folks REALLY deciding direction on this piece of software are not the NI_Matthews and NI_Kaiwans etc.
My speculation is that there is another team - much deeper in the background - "deciding" what it is they think we need for a KK3 experience vs what we really need. In their defense - they also need to make the new world of MKIII boards a priority and I get that
But don't think for a minute that the endless barrage of chatter in here will make "promises" happen faster or make any difference to the overall "game plan" for KK3 - which could months or a year to finally (really) come into focus.
If/when it does - I will be there to try it out. But until then...back to something that actually does work = 2.9.6
VP
1 -
That is all well and good if you really have nothing else to do - and want to sit here in the forums and complain about this KK3 debacle week in and week out.
Only because I'm taking my time at the weekend to post to the NI forums doesn't mean that I don't have other things to do. There are plenty of tasks on my list, privately and professionally; things that I really like and some that I dislike. But for sure I wouldn't spend my time to this extent here in these forums if I'd think that it's for nothing in the end. Btw., I'm also here to help others with their (not KK-related) problems as well, if you haven't noticed that fact yet.
I have refrained from posting to this NI forum for a very long time, but the situation has drastically changed recently. At least I believe in things that need to be said and done right now (and not later when it's already too late and my hardware is announced obsolete already). As MK2 owners we're sitting in the same boat, and you should know already what happens if NI perceives "radio silence" to a particular topic after some time: simply nothing. NI can still prove me wrong by finally providing due dates for their planned updates.
Btw., as I can see, you're also taking the same efforts to reply to this thread, so what really differentiates us is just a different approach to these things. But it's okay, as we already agreed personally to accept that about each other. At least I still do.
0 -
"As MK2 owners we're sitting in the same boat, and you should know already what happens if NI perceives "radio silence" to a particular topic after some time: simply nothing. NI can still prove me wrong by finally providing due dates for their planned updates"
That's just it though - isn't it. The reality is - NI does not have to "provide" us with anything. They offered us a product and we bought it. In any other transaction - that would really be it. Nuff said
But in here - for whatever reason - we think we have this "holier than thou" ability to tell these guys what they "should" do - vs what they will do.
Now - while I always welcome any opportunity to offer a vendor feedback - do remember that KK does not belong to us and whatever we end getting - be it "usable" or otherwise - is really up to NI.
They can either knock it out of the park OR make some half-a**ed effort to try and replicate the "useability" of KK2 with the "go-forward" vibe of KK3. But I am not going to sit around here try to get them to bend to my will for months on end. They will either come through or not.
For me - all I can do is carry with KK 2.9.6 - and then check back in July 2024 and see how we are doing.
VP
0 -
But in here - for whatever reason - we think we have this "holier than thou" ability to tell these guys what they "should" do - vs what they will do.
There are many that think that it is far from unreasonable to respect that NI has existed for a number of years and many have spent volumes of time and money learning and using their products and that the current 'owners' should be cognizant of that regardless of how out of their depth they appear to be as to what they have bought into. If you know nothing, or not as much as you perhaps think, then amalgamating all the different product lines seems very appealing. The reality is proving to be a dog's dinner and rewriting long-established software with people that don't appear to understand the product's history and usage is going down as well as could be expected...it's pretty much a disaster and not just with KK. How arrogant do you have to be to show zero respect for the products you have bought into to trounce long-established workflows and not even recognise the value of it historical iconography and how that facilitated ease of use.
Ideally, people at the moment would be saying hooray, a new lease of life for NI.
I don't think many are...........................
0 -
I made a few contributions to this thread when it started back in October and have returned to check on progress and the general "lie of the NI land" as it were. As an owner of an S88 Mk1 obviously I am confined to KK 2.9.6 for however long it can function.
NI obviously haven't changed their minds about making Mk1 hardware EOL - there has not been any sniff of a concession made to keep the most basic Mk1 functionality going with updates to accommodate OS or other system software changes.
It is disappointing to see the limitations of KK3 haven't much improved either, and aithough I obviously can't use it with my hardware, I have experienced the "cut down" functionality of KK3 browsing on another computer.
After 40 or so pages of "Feedback" the only conclusion I can draw for my own personal musical journey moving forward, is that I will have to wave "bye bye" to NI's hardware at least, and will seriously be thinking whether it is worth supporting a company making decisions such as these, by making NO further investments in their software instruments either...
I have searched Google to find more up to date reviews of the current array of S-Series Mk3 instruments being used to see how they are in "real life", but have yet to find any that aren't the ones available at product launch. There are folks who are clearly happy with their Mk3 and KK3 purchases and who post on here but in the wider, perhaps more independent world, I have yet to see a glowing Mk3 review.
1 -
I have yet to see a glowing Mk3 review.
Unfortunately when a lot of people get something new and it works fine for them and does what they want they don't go and post "this is great" everywhere, they just get on and use it. KK3 isn't working for a lot of people, but I'm pretty sure that for the proportion of the user base who want to use it to play NI and other NKS instruments with a MK2/MK3 it's quite adequate. Do I think some of the design/roadmap decisions for KK3 were a little 'odd'? Of course, but I'm not the product manager and I don't have access to usage data.
-- Mike
0 -
All fully understood, and again, I respect your personal opinion, even though it is still somehow different from my general worldview.
As you were the one starting to talk about company-internal structures and workflows several times already, let me also tell you my own experiences. For more than three decades I was working in an IT company employing more that 1,500 people worldwide. Even though I wasn't involved in detailed Software Development tasks, at least I was responsible for related Engineering and IP Network Planning, working very closely with the local Software Development Team. Therefore, I exactly know how to plan resources, roadmaps, milestones and how to escalate any problems which may suddenly occur on the horizon. I have to admit that I don't know anything about how NI has set up their internal workflows, and I'm also not aware of where those so-called NI Top Managers you were talking about are actually located. However, I don't believe that communication cannot be set up accordingly if there's a will. But who am I to analyze NI's internal workflows; maybe it's really hard to get through to the top level personally and to inform them frequently, even though this would really surprise me.
Here in Europe it is very common to arrange personal meetings for everyone - not only with direct Line Managers or Project Managers, but with all kinds of Managers working for the same company, up to the CEO/CFO level. No barriers, not even on a language level. Personally, I have used such direct communication ways whenever possible, and it really improved the overall situation inside the company in terms of mutual understanding. I simply believe that even Top Managers - not reading any postings in forums like this - are still very interested in what's actually going on at the customer frontline. And that views need to be reported to them as is, and not in a sugarcoated form. At least in the company I previously worked for, the keyword "customer satisfaction" was one of the most important values we had to fulfill. Fixing issues claimed by customers were always top priority. After all, happy customers will finally decide in the end how much money a company makes. In this particular context here - and looking at several postings from NI customers recently - it can't be denied that the disappointment with the current KK3 software has already reached a level where it has become too big already to be put under the carpet - not even until folks have finally stopped claiming. Therefore, I still believe that it's possible - by formally appealing to NI's Project Managers - to get in touch with their bosses and to tell them about the current issues. If if no mutual understanding can be achieved at all, there's anyway something going wrong. However, just taking my conclusions by comparing the current situation with processes in other companies, I can only guess that also NI is an ISO-certified entity which has internal workflows in place which are natively including important feedback loops. This forum has also been created for exactly that very purpose, but just dedicated to related feedback between customers and NI - which is a very good thing in general. What else could be the aim of it, if not exactly that? To be clear, it's the only tool customers have in the end to point out if something appears not to be running smoothly, even if member statements might be very critical sometimes (and that also includes my own postings, if you will).
But maybe I'm too naive in your eyes, still believing that we all could have an acceptable solution very soon. And maybe you will also keep right in the end, as you may have more experience than me when it comes to the "NI club" and you may know already in detail how things went in the past. However, I wouldn't like to have missed the opportunity to point out again and again how disappointed I'm currently about the fact that NI's marketing seems to convey a different image than what actually applies to certain products. As a customer, having spent much money, based on official media reports, videos with presented workflows, product descriptions, product views etc. - directly coming from NI - I guess I have the legal right to claim back functionality that has been (and still is) advertized but has recently been removed from an application named Komplete Kontrol. Even all current NI pages (I've checked it today) still show KK features that are actually not available anymore. Again, I didn't buy stuff from Wish, but from NI, and all was propagated in such a way that the whole hardware setup needs to rely on a central miracle weapon called Komplete Kontrol.
Maybe laws are also completely different from country to country, but I have the luck to live in Europe where customers still have certain rights and get rather treated as partners than just annoying side-effects. Therefore, primarily I'm still seeing that "KK story" from a pure customer's perspective (what a surprise). If you like to call that attribute self-centered or even "Holier-Than-Thou" as mentioned by you, it's okay for me; I can take it. But for sure what I won't accept are approaches that make customers officially work with a piece of software that is actually no longer developed and maintained, namely KK2. Yes, I'm also aware that KK is still a "free" application/plugin, but believe me, sooner or later it will be available as "commercial" application only, e.g. bundled with MK3 hardware exclusively. We can meet in one year or so to verify that my prediction hit the spot. But nevertheless, I'm not willing to wait another year to have issues fixed, not even half a year - until this application fusion has really happened already (but KK2 features might have never been brought back until then).
Let's please leave any further discussions related to our different views on this topic aside, because - as we've noticed already before - together we won't be able to reach a common denominator. Nothing personal! Peace!
2 -
"But for sure what I won't accept are approaches that make customers officially work with a piece of software that is actually no longer developed and maintained, namely KK2. "
It's clear you and I see this completely differently. I am all about the "toolbox" and using whatever is in it. Pragmatic and minimal. Dislike hassle factor and especially dislike trying to fight city hall extensively. \
Now - I do not mind taking a few shots where warranted as I believe NI (in this case) deserves them - but again - there is nothing you (or I) or anyone can do in this situation.
But laws or no laws - Europe or Canada (in my case) NI is not going to move any faster or rewrite KK to ever suit us - they will do it to suit them on their schedule (as we have already seen).
Finally - for me this is not a case of "wait". What I have right now (v2.9.6) - works great and I can work with it.
Enjoy the holidays and try to relax and make some music :)
VP
2 -
So be it! 😎
0 -
Probably a good time to reiterate the following:
- Komplete Kontrol 3 represents a major tech transition
- Meaning, an overhaul of the frameworks under the hood that held us back from delivering features users wanted (one example = the old graphical framework could not support resizing and high resolution)
- In making that transition, we introduced new features, yes, but also deprioritized other features
- Where tough de-prioritization decisions were made, they were data driven
- The usage data we collect is statistically accurate and proportionally representative
- This entire transition, and the decisions made, were decisions made by a passionate and dedicated team, who have to care for a very large and diverse user base, including many not represented here
- However, that does not change the understandable truth of the matter: users who used features present in KK 2.9 that are temporarily unavailable in KK 3.0 are unhappy to have lost those features
- We are continuing our work as noted in earlier posts, including, but not limited to some of the following:
- Browser resizing (in beta, with a few more improvements to build before we release, targeting end of year)
- Browser tag editing
- Browser drag/drop
- Browser sub banks
- etc etc
I'm reiterating this just to remind people that we're here, we did things for a reason, even if those things are not universally popular, and that I don't expect to be given much grace or patience until we've followed up with the things we said we'd follow up with, but that we are actively working on that (see beta comment above).
4 -
@Matthew_NI You keep repeating this so I'll say something I've said before...
In the other thread (Kontrol S-Series Mk3 - Feeling Like a Beta Tester) you've commented that "Kontrol S MK3 has been in development for a long team, behind which is a unified team of people."
I'm assuming you mean "time" instead of "team" the first time you used the word in that sentence. I asked you in October when I had my first rant, about how long was it actually in development together with the co-existing and necessary KK3. I think you were vague then as well.
I'm not going to continue contributing further nor reading these threads as I feel I'm just working myself up to a stew while hitting my head against a brick wall. Yes, I'm miffed as well because of Mk1 being EoL, but this is how the Native Instruments Company is currently making me feel... really quite angry.
It is quite clear to me and to others on this forum that KK3 (and therefore Kontrol S Mk3 hardware, since they require it) should have been in development for a little longer before release, if things had to be "de-prioritised" in your words to get it up to scratch BEFORE launch.
I'll come back from time to time to catch up on developments but for now I'm off and going to have a lie down...
0 -
I think this might the first time I've seen a statement on browser sub banks making a return.
This should be a positive sign for several people active in this thread who have been missing this particular feature.
Thanks for the info.
1 -
Hi,
I just recently updated to the new Native Acces. My KK is still on older version than the 2.9.6 build that is mentioned in this thread as maybe the best build for users of an MK2-keyboard, as I am. However, Native Access only lets me upgrade to 3.0.3 now. For as long as I will still use the MK2 S61 (I love the integration with Maschine) I would like to be able to update to 2.9.6. Anyone knows how I can do that?
Thanks in advance.
0 -
Here's the full into about the transition of KK2 to KK3..
And there are links at the bottom to both Mac and Windows versions of KK 2.9.6 (they are served from a NI Google Drive account):
1 -
Thank you, nightjar!
1
Categories
- All Categories
- 19 Welcome
- 1.4K Hangout
- 60 NI News
- 731 Tech Talks
- 3.8K Native Access
- 15.8K Komplete
- 1.9K Komplete General
- 4.1K Komplete Kontrol
- 5.5K Kontakt
- 1.5K Reaktor
- 364 Battery 4
- 813 Guitar Rig & FX
- 416 Massive X & Synths
- 1.2K Other Software & Hardware
- 5.5K Maschine
- 6.9K Traktor
- 6.9K Traktor Software & Hardware
- Check out everything you can do
- Create an account
- See member benefits
- Answer questions
- Ask the community
- See product news
- Connect with creators