Status on m1/m2 update?
Comments
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No one maintains his code so that an OS manufacturer can require a new CPU architecture tomorrow, and it will all work with minor adjustments. That's just not possible. Especially when you rely on CPU extensions which aren't available on the new platform.
@colB is absolutely right up there. If you want to point your finger, point it at Apple.
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You must have a huge beef with Apple to be so negative in all Mac related threads on various forums. I get it, you're PC boy bred and born and you hate them Apples with every fibre of your being, but heck... 🤣
This endless stagnancy (which you PC guys call "compatibility") on Win platform is double edged sword in the same fashion as endless changes to Apple platform. Because of this obsession of clinging to old code and apps, Microsoft can't innovate with Windows the way it could otherwise. I do however agree that Apple quite often innovates too much too often, though 😀
OTOH, just how much time in advance should Apple give developers to rewrite code for new processor architecture, in your humble opinion? 5 years? 10? 20? 100?
I guess your answer would be "just stick to Intel/AMD x86 architecture, no need to change anything". Just put a new lipstick on (very) old cow - like Microsoft with Windows 11. OK, I get it - you do you, but let us do us.
If a software company doesn't want to rewrite their software for M1 (or can't), it's perfectly understandable. It's developer's choice to support Apple platform and I fully respect that and vote with my wallet.
But if a company claims that it supports Apple platform, we expect them to have native M1 versions in a reasonable time. Somehow 2 years was reasonable time for Waves, Korg, Spectrasonics, Arturia, iZotope, U-He, Rob Papen, Synapse, AAS, Softube, reFX and hundreds of other vendors. Just not for NI.
I know it's difficult for them, due to old codebase, ancient graphic libraries and Intel specific AVX code. I understand the gargantuan work they need to do. But other big companies with 20 years old code did this somehow already.
NI managed to make 1 of their engines M1 native (Kontakt) in 2 years time. This is beyond pathetic, IMHO.
So please, hardcore PC guys and Apple haters - instead of polluting every Mac thread with your musing, lobby NI to drop support for Apple altogether. Until they do that (and they won't, cause that's where the money is), we have every right to demand compatibility with M1 processors in a timely fashion.
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"This endless stagnancy (which you PC guys call "compatibility") on Win platform is double edged sword in the same fashion as endless changes to Apple platform. Because of this obsession of clinging to old code and apps, Microsoft can't innovate with Windows the way it could otherwise."
In which way does Microsoft want to "innovate" Windows in your opinion? And what has that to do with switching to a completely new CPU architecture, and how is Apple's way of doing things even comparable to the Windows world, when they mainly switched to that architecture, because it's a mobile CPU which consumes less energy? A mobile CPU is always a trade off between performance/energy efficiency. You can get much more performance out of a CPU when you cool it. Naturally. Laws of physics etc. Not even Apple is able to defeat those.
Anyway, you don't seem to be able to discuss this topic in a proper manner anyway, with your ongoing "haters" and "fanboys" name-calling. So, I'll just leave you to it.
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I see levity and sense of humour is elusive to you, which is a shame.
I’d suggest you would not only “leave me to it”, but also leave us, Mac users to it and stop polluting Apple threads with your vitriol.
To answer your question, the lack of native apps for Windows on ARM is the reason of slow uptake of ARM laptops in PC world. This slow uptake causes lack of native apps, thus closing the circle, like Ouroboros eating its own tail. All because of compatibility…
Developers need to be coerced to provide native apps and that’s exactly what Apple is doing and I applaud them for this.
If you cannot see the advantages of Apple M1 processors over x86 architecture, I feel really sorry for you. You seem to be an intelligent guy, but being objective is not your biggest virtue.
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If you cannot see the advantages of Apple M1 processors over x86 architecture, I feel really sorry for you.
Yes, if you think M1 processors have considerable advantages over x86 architecture. I feel sorry for you. :-))))
Rosetta 3 aproaching....
And if you cannot understand that converting Reaktor to M1 is something several orders more complicated than converting ordinary audio plugin. Than you are lost....
My feeling is that NI already has M1 compatibility (maybe not for Reaktor), but keeps testing, waits to test for M2 and has decided to release M1/M2 and VST3 together with release of Komplete 14.
At least, it is what I would do, if I wanted to cut costs... Each release costs considerably, by doing so, they would cut release costs to one third (M1, VST3, K14 in one shot, instead of separate releases.)
How long it might take to update applications to a new CPU shows how long there has been Rosetta 1 (4+ years). And also how long Rosetta 2 will be here. Definitelly it is way more than 2 years....
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M1/M2 chips have amazing power envelope versus long term sustained performance. So for laptops, there is a tremendous advantage over x86. Desktops, not really - at least not yet.
Have a look at M2 Ultra and M2 Extreme and tell me those are not good desktop processors, if those numbers are true.
I am aware about Reaktor Intel Compiler for ensembles and the complexity of porting this, however there are other plugins and Maschine waiting to be converted.
You might be right that they want to do it all together to save costs, which is understandable, but not doing us, Mac users any favours.
As for me, I am still waiting and not abandoning NI, am I not?
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"I see levity and sense of humour is elusive to you, which is a shame.
I’d suggest you would not only “leave me to it”, but also leave us, Mac users to it and stop polluting Apple threads with your vitriol."
Where is the humour?
And, don't come with this victim role. There is absolutely zero reason for that, when Mac users act entitled about software companies not supporting their CPU architecture, when Apple chooses to go all in. Apart from that, there's something called Rosetta which was specifically designed for the purpose of transitioning. At least Apple thought of that.
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M1/M2 chips have similar power envelope like AMD Ryzens, if produced on the same node.
Ordinary M2 and Zen4 comming soon will be on the same (or at least similar) node. So, comparison of M2 and Zen4 mobile CPUs will be more or less fair (M2 is made on N5P (2nd gen 5nm), while Zen4 maybe just N5 (1st gen 5nm)). So, let´s wait for results..... (M2 Pro/Max-... will be on 3nm node, I think, so not suitable for direct comparison of power envelope.)
Yes, M2 will be a bit better in power envelope, but not much better... x86 CPUs are targeted to performance (it is harder to obtain ultra low power use), while M1/M2 to power envelope (it is harder to obtain high performance)....
There are not just power hungry Intels.... Intel has serious problems at delivering competetive CPUs.... And will have for next few years, if thing go well for Intel. It may take longer, if things would go wrong ways....
You might be right that they want to do it all together to save costs, which is understandable, but not doing us, Mac users any favours.
Well, is not the fact that it will be for free big favour for Mac users? It should have been paid upgrade....
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"Intel has serious problems at delivering competetive CPUs.... And will have for next few years, if thing go well for Intel. It may take longer, if things would go wrong ways...."
Intel is still the best choice, if you want to have great single core performance (most of the best single core CPU's are Intel's). Which is still very relevant for computer audio.
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The humour bit was in reference to you taking offence at me calling you a PC fanboy and Apple hater. It was lighthearted. The rest of my post was not.
What I take offence with, is you calling Apple users entitled. How is it that we are entitled if we ask for compatibility support and PC users are not, if they have any problems with Win10/11? Just because you PC users are a majority?
If a software company claims to support Mac, they HAVE to provide native versions for M1, otherwise they do not support the platform.
i don’t expect Magix Sequoia or whoever owns Cakewalk now to provide M1 compatibility because those are PC only vendors. NI claims to be multi platform.
As for Rosetta, Apple will stop supporting it as soon as their transition to ARM is complete, to force developers to provide native versions. Otherwise, they will drag their feet forever.
And by the way, as a user, would you accept for your music software to run under emulation layer indefinitely?
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Singlecore is relevant up to certain limit... But yes, Intel has now bigger singlecore than AMD, but consumes twice, three times more. And that singlecore performance is not sustainable one, it may last only as long as CPU starts boil water... And there will be Zen4 in few months, we will see if Intel will maintain singlecore No1.
One also needs silent computer for audio. CPU that takes 250W+ is hard and costly to cool and maintain acceptable noise floor...
But still, Intel has problems. Last quartal it had big financial loss.... It looses at server segment, it has problems to complete supercomputer and it also looses at PC segment. And Intel´s graphic cards are just a joke...
Many problems in many product segments...
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I agree with you in general. I should have said “Intel” instead of x86. As I said before, what AMD does is amazing and Lisa Su is great CEO.
Maybe it should have been paid upgrade, I know I’d be happy to pay for it. What I do know is that it should have been more timely.
i guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Have a look at M2 Ultra and M2 Extreme and tell me those are not good desktop processors, if those numbers are true.
It does not seem that number for M2 Extreme is right. It should be less than double of M2 Ultra...
Yes, they are powerfull. They will cost fortune. You cannot compare them with x86 CPUs for PC. Comparing them with x86 CPUs for workstations would be better...
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What I do know is that it should have been more timely.
Of course it would be nice.... NI has decided to release AS native Kontakt ASAP. It was timely. And not to release the rest in batches, but together in possibly one batch. To save money, as it is not paid upgrade...
It may be unpleasant, but they know, what is the proportion of Apple x86 and M1/M2 CPUs among their customers. And other data on those two user groups, like how much they spend...
So, they may decide, what hurts less. Please M1 users and spend more on releases, or spend less on releases, but have complaints from some users.
The same decision NI had to face when terminated authentication of some legacy plugins.... They broke EULA, made problems to certain amount of users.... But saved money....
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"What I take offence with, is you calling Apple users entitled. How is it that we are entitled if we ask for compatibility support and PC users are not, if they have any problems with Win10/11?"
I think you're smart enough to know that the entitlement doesn't lie in the question about CPU support, but in the attitude that companies are lazy, and allegedly the last company in the world to not support Sillicon natively. You know, THAT entitlement.
I don't have any issues even with 10 year old plugins on Windows 11, by the way. Just saying, as you obviously think Windows users are asking for support for non-functional Windows software. We don't. Stuff usually works in Windows, for many, many versions. If it's coded properly. Yes, I know, that's because of the technological "stagnation". Which only exists in your imagination. Apple is bleeding edge, which means that a lot of stuff simply stops working on the next version, or when they completely change the CPU architecture on ALL of their computers. That's the difference.
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