Status on m1/m2 update?

25Kyz
25Kyz Member Posts: 7 Sine
edited July 28 in Reaktor

The year is 8 months in and Apple has released m1/ Max and Pro and now M2 and I'm still running Studio One in Rosetta to use Reaktor, Super 8... Is there any news on??🤯

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  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    2-3 months more waiting for AS & VST3, if things will go along the NI plan.

    At least, month ago it has been 3-4 months....

  • Kwamensah
    Kwamensah Member Posts: 2 Noise

    That page has said the same thing forever. They lean on "rosetta" support but the software runs terribly under rosetta. Massive X and Reaktor, are near unusable. I don't really have any confidence there will ever be M1 support. It's been almost 2 years already and every other audio software company has gotten caught up.

  • Kwamensah
    Kwamensah Member Posts: 2 Noise

    Reaktor flat out doesn't work at all in Ableton or Logic and takes upwards of 12gigs of ram in some instances in Pro Tools. It desperately needs Apple Silicon support.

  • Nico_NI
    Nico_NI BerlinAdministrator Posts: 654 admin

    We look into making most our products Silicon ready this year. At least I can confirm Massive X will be hopefully soon 🤞

  • nanotable
    nanotable Member Posts: 30 Sine

    Oh that’s great news! I hope you’ll do a semi-open beta like you did with Kontakt 🙏

  • davemacp
    davemacp Member Posts: 15 Sine

    Rosetta causes issues, it's not a solution. I mean for a couple of months sure, we could have struggled through but after 2 years? C'mon now, sort it out ffs...

  • colB
    colB Member Posts: 239 Saw

    It's kinda funny really.

    If any other company released a completely new platform, users and software developers would probably just ignore it.

    When Apple do it, they spin it as an upgrade to their existing platform, and not only do their users unquestioningly accept this, but they also blame third party developers who take longer to adopt it. I mean, I get that for many people Apple can do no wrong, but it's well known that if you are an early adopter of a new technology platform, then you will have to accept the inevitable downsides.

    This is a problem for users, and a problem for Native Instruments, but it's not their fault, it's Apple's, and it's Apple you should be complaining to. Why didn't they give third party developers, more time, more resources, and more support in making the transition?

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 398 Saw
    edited July 30

    Nope. NI failed to maintain their code in an adaptable condition for the market. They were short-sighted in building up technical debt.

  • colB
    colB Member Posts: 239 Saw

    Nope.

    It's not their code that's the problem here. If NI just ported their code for Reaktor - which I'm sure would be a relatively straightforward job - then Reaktor would work just fine natively on M1 as a compiler that generates X86 code very efficiently. Not much use to you M1 users though... right?

    It's not a porting job, they need to write an optimising compiler for M1 silicon. That's a much bigger job than porting some code (which is all that the vast majority of other developers have had to do). It's nothing at all to do with code maintenance or technical debt. It's literally the nature of the product - it's a compiler that targets X86. So porting is useless.

    Folk have suggested that NI should use a third party compiler system... LLVM particularly was mentioned. But after taking quite a deep dive into what it can and cant do, it seems that there is no support for dataflow type languages like Reaktor (just some stuff about LLVM using an internal dataflow technology to compile non dataflow languages, which is still in early development stage fwiw).

    And anyway, Reaktor's compiler is unique in that it recompiles actively during editing, and as a result it needs to be lightening fast, so a general purpose compiler technology where this is not a top priority is unlikely to be useful.

    It's just unfortunate for Apple users that Reaktor is such a unique product that doesn't easily fit into the update programme that Apple has provided. Be patient and thankful that NI didn't decide to drop Mac support completely ;)

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    Exactly!!!! And many plugins rely on Reaktor, they are "just" Reaktor ensembles.

    And it is not also true, what Nightjar says, that Apple has provided great support to developers. Developers got half baked hardware (development kit) with CPU similar not identical to M1 and betaversion of OS just few months before M1 release....

    Problems that has Traktor with M1 Pro/Max/Ultra shows that even the "same" family CPU is not that same. So, providing developer kit with non M1 chip is somehow crazy....

    M1/M2 are interesting chips, but it is not worth the problems.... x86 is able to do the same and even better. My guess is Rosetta 3 will come in 5-6 years. Good news is that porting back to x86 will not be that troublesome...

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 185 Saw

    What’s sad is how NI bad decissions made them near the edge so it needed investment firm etc…

    but the only bad decisions were related to Traktor, Maschine or Komplete… oh wait!

    NI had over a decade to build professional products for iPad as a playground for M1 but instead of it took it as “toy companion”.

    Well it seems it was another strategical mistake and time will shown us. Let’s talk in a year (and let’s hope roadmap fulfill everyone needs…)

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    iPad is the toy. And applications for it did not bring money back.... Professional product for iPad toy? Are you kidding?

    It happens companies make bad decisions, or just have bad luck. AMD was close to bancrupcy few years ago. New investor came and new management and now they have better CPUs than Intel...

    Intel has hard times recently. The last quarter was the worst ever... That is the result of "four cores forever". And also of technological problems with introducing modern nodes...

    Lehman Brothers was one of the banks that never ever may fall....

    And the fact that company seeks capital may mean that company is in bad state and needs to be saved, or that company is in good state and wants dramatically expand. Or anything in between.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 185 Saw

    A toy which cpu now is inside macs.

    Stop talking about you don’t understand please…

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,035 Pulse

    And 2, 3, 5, 10 years ago? Now is now... IPad Pro has M1 CPU for 1 year..... And iPad Air few months.... The rest of iPads have weaker CPUs....

    And till quite recently iPads had only up to 2 GB of RAM. Toys, not pro devices....

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