Native Access - Mid Q2 Update
Comments
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do you or your management ever taken into account what this all means for your users
A look around here and certainly on outside forums gives an easy answer to that, and it isn't in any way positive. It's almost as if it's an ambition to haemorrhage users……so sad, so frustrating…………………….
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Yes, and it’s that frustration that’s eating loyalty and trust in the company as a whole, including smaller partners that are under control of NI and therefore PE.
So as customers we need something that makes us less prone to killing of services, investing in future development and balancing resources in favor of strategic decisions.
As said in another thread I’ve invested a lot in NI hardware and software, also from partners / members of the group. Now it all becomes very dependent on the NI NA app and related services, NI Sales and NI Support, therefore the mentioned frustration grows by the day.
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There is definitely a lot to sort out with regards to Native Access. I'm on board with those who want the choice whether the daemon is an always on or as needed service. Releases need to focus on stability first, features second. Some things have been going on too long that need attention.
Bugs like products going into demo mode should have been mission critical all else stops until this has been fixed priority.
Native Instruments also need to address the ability to authorise offline for those who need it, and to authorise discontinued software, though this should be come after stability for current software installations.
But…
Now that the Native Access team have started to take a stability first approach, I am putting my voice out there as someone who understands why automatic updates are important. Allowing people to choose whatever version of the installation manager they prefer, even if it has flaws that have since been fixed, is a support nightmare. It should be allowed only on a case by case basis as a limited exception. Unless, as a user, the person who insists in using an older version acknowledges that they are unsupported. Any problems they have can reasonably be met with ‘please update to the latest version and if the problem persists, we will look into it’. If they refuse, then there is nothing more to be done. Fixes cannot be issued for an old version. A company I worked for once asked my team to maintain multiple versions of one of our apps. Once we explained what this would mean for support, and for us as developers forced to take time to implement fixes multiple times across apps with varied versions of the code, and for QA who would need to test each version, they wisely changed their minds.
Will the anti-auto-update people accept this limitation?
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For those like myself who are suffering immeasurably with scanning issues that affect more than just NA2, it's gone way beyond anything defensible in any kind of way shape or form. It has been going on for months and months and months and gets worse anytime companies do updates. There are no imminent signs of any fixes or any real palpable concern on behalf of anyone at NI.
Way beyond disgusting, watch as a once regarded companies reputation slides down the wall into a very ugly puddle on the floor………………………..
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But…
I agree with everything BEFORE that (especially that demon thing running) and little to nothing after it.
Ok so you're a Dev. Dont get me wrong, thats fine and Im not knocking that at all, but some of us are not and neither should we jump through hoops because of NI's failure to maintain stability through what should be a normal upgrade/ update process with an emphasis on "that stability achieved within a reasonable time."
From what I can see, you're expecting us to (continue to) allow NI to be the ambulance at the BOTTOM of the cliff when they should be the ambulance at the top. Im sorry but that just isn't fair when you take into account all thats been going on for a looong time now including the time it takes to get these things sorted out.
The fact is, there has been way too many peoples systems rendered either inoperable or severly screwed up where they cant use what they paid for. Support has been a nightmare for people who's instuments are unusable until NI gets back to them, something that I personally have experienced a number of times. Im talking about time.
Right now I continue to be in limbo waiting to update key software, but wont because of the continual issues which all have to go through NA. I strongly disagree with forced Auto Updates at the best of times. From what I can see you want us to be betatesters and I dont want to be that.
…and, mandatory 1 month logins? um, or what? we lose our products??? I STRONGLY disagree with a forced mandatory time restricted login process which is a nightmare in the making. What if someones internet was down, or they otherwise couldn't comply through no fault of their own? I certainly dont mind NA "checking" on your legality to run the software WHEN YOU DECIDE TO LOG IN to NA. Thats all that should be required.
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I would add that, although not a fan, I could agree also with what Paul B wrote AFTER that “But…”.
But…now I would use MY BUT…
That would be valid if you introduce (and force) auto updates only when you’ve created a stable, well written, PERFECTLY WORKING program.
Forcing auto updates exactly when your program encounters its period of maximum issues is…well… just irresponsible… (as is programming previous version deprecation not knowing if new version will be working BEFORE not allowing users to revert to something that at least will allow you to install what you paid for without issues…)
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Im not against keeping software up to date, within reason. No software can be perfect on all systems. Too many variables. Dont know about M$ but even Apple gives you the option to turn off Auto Updating, which I think is sensible. It protects my right to NOT be an early adopter. Those who are more knowledgeable, and can easily get themselves out of a hole, let them do their thing.
Many issues are exacerbated by slow and/or extended support times and add to that, blockades to getting previous installers because of the massive inconvenience of repeatedly getting failed downloads off google drive.
Ideally we would love NI to host ALL their own products (including rollback installers) through a well functioning NA and many many support requests would be freed up.
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I agree with everything BEFORE that (especially that demon thing running) and little to nothing after it.
Ok so you're a Dev. Dont get me wrong, thats fine and Im not knocking that at all, but some of us are not and neither should we jump through hoops because of NI's failure to maintain stability through what should be a normal upgrade/ update process with an emphasis on "that stability achieved within a reasonable time."
You should not have to jump through hoops. I was clear that NI have the responsibility here to fix things. And as quickly as reasonably possible. I agree that things certain users have experienced should dealt with as a priority.
From what I can see, you're expecting us to (continue to) allow NI to be the ambulance at the BOTTOM of the cliff when they should be the ambulance at the top. Im sorry but that just isn't fair when you take into account all thats been going on for a looong time now including the time it takes to get these things sorted out.
To respond to this, you'll need to point out what I wrote that you took to mean this, because nothing I wrote says anything like this.
I strongly disagree with forced Auto Updates at the best of times. From what I can see you want us to be betatesters and I don't want to be that.
I don't think you know what a beta tester is. Or you've badly misinterpreted what I wrote and again you'd have to explain because nothing I said backs up this assertion.
Allowing people to use whatever version of Native Access they want will cause more problems than it solves. Again, with exceptions made for people with very specific problems which can be resolved by specific versions of Native Access while it is being made more generally stable. Long term, though, that practice should go away with delivery of an installation manager that works well for everyone, and preferably also a system designed such that if the installation manager is not behaving well, alternate means of authorisation are available (e.g., Ableton allow authorisation using a file that can be generated by authenticating through your account on the website).
It should also never be possible for anyone's software to suddenly enter a demo state and require reauthorisation. Once a standard license is authorised, it should remain so permanently. Subscriptions do need to be checked periodically, but this should be infrequent, e.g. at the renewal date. Subscriptions will unfortunately be a little more fragile because of this. A single ‘can't connect to the auth servers’ should not result in deactivation, and a grace period, say 24 hours after the renewal time, could be allowed in case someone is having general connection problems.
…and, mandatory 1 month logins? um, or what? we lose our products??? I STRONGLY disagree with a forced mandatory time restricted login process which is a nightmare in the making. What if someones internet was down, or they otherwise couldn't comply through no fault of their own? I certainly dont mind NA "checking" on your legality to run the software WHEN YOU DECIDE TO LOG IN to NA. Thats all that should be required.
I genuinely have no idea what this has to do with anything I wrote or anything anyone from NI wrote. There is as far as I can see no such policy. NI representatives have, as I recall, said there is no such policy.
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I see your point.
But if you will allow me another but… From the posts I see in this forum, many people who are having problems have lost trust in NI (I do not blame them, even if I don't share their view) and may stubbornly refuse to update because they do not believe the problems will be resolved by a new version. This creates a dilemma, because if the only people updating are the ones who did not have problems, they are not in a position to report back and say ‘yes, this fixed the problem for me.’
Perhaps I am being pessimistic here, and enough users with problems will try each update to convince the rest that it's a good one.
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I can easily tell you how THIS customer benefits because it's a part of my daily routine to check the overall health of a core piece of what my studio depends on. It's where I go to look for updates and review what was historically addressed in updates of any of the components. It's where I check on version numbers for compatibility sake. It's what I depend on to organize my physical storage system to ensure proper responsiveness and even out my workload between heavily used libraries and occasionally used libraries. It's where I go to determine who the 3rd party vendor is on any of my libraries should I need direct support. Of course it's my go to portal for downloading and updating my libraries which I check on daily.
Without it would be like having a public library full of books, videos, historical articles, public records and not having a library card to access any of it.
I personally find it hard to classify a company as "evil" when they give me a tool to help me professionally manage my music creation system. But maybe you prefer to fly by the seat of your pants when it comes to management of your system…to each their own.
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I’m talking about choice, a fallback, a not required network connection or availability of online services to keep your latest version of purchased products up and running. So yes, I can understand your opinion and mentioned benefits of update notifications, too.
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To be honest there's a reason folks who aren't having problems don't come and report it, because they get criticized and hounded if they do. And THAT is the truth. I had some very minor issues during this transition, and worked around or worked out the problems. But I found out quickly people don't want to hear such things because it infers the problem may not be with NI but with they way they manage their system.
We all know there have been bugs, most of which aren't affecting someone like myself who's on a Windows system using Ableton Live as my DAW. And I have no reason for excusing the problems NI brought on itself, but as a casual observer from the outside (as we almost ALL are) I see the effort they're putting in to not only explain what they've done to correct the logistical and managerial issues that fostered the failures, but keep us advised of their progress. I would suggest that's WAY more forthcoming than the majority of large companies would be including ones like Apple, Microsoft, Adobe and many, many more.
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That's up to you if you feel that would improve your work environment. It's never been a problem for me other than when their servers have intermittently gone down. But even that is a temporary fluke and nothing I would want to take up valuable time that could be used more productively on other features. If they decide to not do it that doesn't mean they have it in for you. That means there's probably more like me than like you who are perfectly happy with how things work…because for me they work and they all work efficiently.
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Thanks for your opinion.
Let’s agree to disagree.0 -
And I have no reason for excusing the problems NI brought on itself, but
as a casual observer from the outside (as we almost ALL are) I see the
effort they're putting in to not only explain what they've done to
correct the logistical and managerial issues that fostered the failures,
but keep us advised of their progress.This is sounding like someone living in an alternative universe to me.
The effort they seem to be putting in to explain things after a long period of not admitting there were issues, ignoring then blaming users, then gaslighting them, resulting in them saying they are working on it and has been that way for months with no fixes. I don't think anyone has heard a proper explanation for why they have made such drastic changes to the scanning and what possible advantages are supposed to arrive with them, but we are seemingly nowhere near fixes, nor is NA2 proving to be stable yet.
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