Komplete Kontrol S series MK1 keyboards End Of Life

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Comments

  • LarsE
    LarsE Member Posts: 2 Newcomer

    Besides all technical discussions:

    • to announce EOL 2 days before EOL is insane.
    • if NI wants to be a professional partner, this could have never been a way to go. How do you think decisions are made in professional companies? Not this way. See the comments of the other studios. 
    • beside all your prayers that KK 2.9.4 is the way to go, there is NO workaround for newer hardware such as Machine mk3, which we use to put in an ecosystem where old and new hardware can coexist to gather the best features for every device. Eat or die, you could say.
    • to reduce the functionality of a MIDI master keyboard regarding future progression is regarding all the talks we have about sustainability somehow absurd. If you want to insist that KK 2.9.4 is the way to go, look again at the prior argument.
    • all people with mk1 and a lot of other hardware and software products for NI supported NI over the years. I cannot understand how NI can cut the ribbon so easily without any prior announcement.
    • by the way, are M32 and the A-series Keyboards supported in KK 3.0? If so, I cannot believe there are issues with supporting S- Series MK1 as well. Just saying...

    To consider: for me, this is EOF (end of friendship). Sorry for the short-term announcement. It has been for quite a while a wonderful time. Thanks and bye!

  • LarsE
    LarsE Member Posts: 2 Newcomer

    "Managing through technology transitions, and doing our best to ensure EOL is well explained and thoughtfully implemented, even when small numbers of users are duly affected, is part of the job."

    Is this serious? Here we go NI

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 3,993 Expert

    Unfortunately sustainability is a flag companies are waving before our eyes because they know it’s “trendy” to sell us things.

    Don’t ever think any big company gives a f about the environment

  • york909
    york909 Member Posts: 1 Member
    edited October 2023

    Really rather unimpressed with this announcement. I totally get that older products could have limitations and not support newly introduced features. Therefore when I saw the announcement, I was not expecting ongoing support for new features or new libraries, but I did hope that ongoing versions of Komplete Kontrol would continue to still offer limited support for mk1 keyboards.

    As a former NI Kore user I guess I am at least familiar with this frustration of this kind of situation. Luckily I am not over-invested in Komplete Kontrol presets or libraries, and the slow update cycle of many of the Komplete components over the last few years has moved me to other alternatives.

    I will keep using my Mk1 as a MIDI only control keyboard for as long as it keeps going - but as an NI customer, it will be NI Komplete that finally gets discontinued and retired here.

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 682 mod

    I'm 100% serious.

    • We're making a big technology transition, and not every product is being brought along for ongoing feature development. Kontrol S MK1 is being left in a working state with no major known issues.
    • We're trying to explain why, in relevant proximity to, but prior to, the release of the breaking change in KK3
    • That this is not a popular decision with everyone, is something I and my team have to own, but again, I am 100% serious when I say we earnestly and thoughtfully tried to account for the impact (e.g. ensuring Apple Silicon support prior to EOL), and take ownership of explaining it.

    The FAQ captures it most succinctly, I think.

    "The Komplete Kontrol MK1 keyboards are built on a legacy tech stack that is now over a decade old and no longer compatible with the new features we are introducing. As with all technology companies, our resources are not unlimited; it is not possible for us to continue the maintenance of all our older software while also focusing on research, innovation, and supporting new product releases and features."

    "The current MK1 experience will be “frozen in time”, so the last compatible versions of our software will remain available but unsupported. This means that future operating system updates on your computer could affect MK1 compatible NI software. You will need to stay on your current operating system version if you want to avoid damaging updates."

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 682 mod

    We do care quite deeply.

    I have team members who'll take the train to Berlin for two days, rather than fly for two hours. But beyond that, when it comes to hardware, there are a lot of hidden sustainability costs that people tend not to think about.

    Yes, the obvious one: don't introduce unnecessary e-waste. Here I believe we haven't as the keyboards will work indefinitely with KK, and should KK 2.9.4 ever stop working with [insert future OS or DAW], MK1 still functions in MIDI mode, as do most other controllers on the market.

    Yes, another obvious one: component and packaging materials. For instance, the new Kontrol S MK3 packaging was set to be all sustainable cardboard, but it failed certain robustness and rigidity tests (read: product got damaged), so for now it's a combination of cardboard and foam, which isn't as good as we'd have liked, but better than it used to be, and less impactful than a lot of these high gloss outer shell boxes with a ton of plastic wrap on the inside.

    But other costs: build servers require electricity to run, and run almost 24/7, 7 days a week. Software can be hugely unsustainable if no thought is given to the resource intensive efforts to code software, build and compile software, and the energy usage of both facilities and equipment. So that's part of the decision making process when older products are sunset, or frozen in time. The cost to continue to support them can impede progress and support for other products, as they age, but also add up to a net negative environmental impact. This is quite an interesting article on the topic.

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 682 mod
    edited October 2023

    We're attempting to do exactly that: communicate to users before the update goes live that this update is a breaking change.

    To avoid breakage, all users of MK1 need to do is stay on KK 2.9.4, or downgrade if they happen to accidentally install KK 3.0. The change is forward-facing, as you note. We're not taking anything away, so forgive me (because I hear your frustration) but I'm not quite understanding if more notice would have changed how you feel.

    I'm also not quite understanding –but would love to help clarify if you can bear with me– the point about no workaround for newer hardware such as Maschine MK3. Maschine MK3 is still a supported product, and can still be used on the same computer as say, Kontrol S MK1 would be used with KK 2.9.4.

    To clarify: yes all other keyboards (Kontrol S MK2, Kontrol M32, and Kontrol A series) are supported in KK3. As explained in the FAQ, there are issues that affect Kontrol S MK1 that do not affect the other keyboards. You may not believe this, but this is the reason.

  • BMasiello
    BMasiello Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    Why doesn’t NI offer an upgrade incentive program to show some appreciation to their existing customers? For example, ship your old MK1 keyboard back to NI and get an x% discount on an MK3 model.

    Otherwise, what? We get a bunch of MK1s eventually sitting in a landfill somewhere?

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,462 Expert

    Do you know what shipping costs nowadays for large items? For me in Australia to send something like an S61 to America would cost me probably $200 AUD. 15 years ago it was close to free.

    I loved how Ableton did this buyback, it was the main reason I updated to my Push 2 at the time but it's a hard thing to implement for a company.

  • Gene
    Gene Member Posts: 1 Member

    The failure of NI to support the MK1 is totally outrageous. One would think that an outfit like yours would make their firmware and software backward compatible. There is NO WAY I will get a new Komplete Kontrol insrument or use your software in the future. As time goes on, I will have to shift to another keyboard company and software sampling. If you want to keep your customers, you make ALL keyboards backward compatible and to say you can use old software without updating is laughable. You have competitors and they are going to outstrip you in no time. Frankly, I was very happy with KK and the NI software with my MK1, but your company is NOT LOOKING AHEAD, and by failing to do so in hopes we will all buy new keyboards is simply foolish and will be your ruin. You will in the long run LOSE CUSTOMERS. Just look at this chain of unhappy users. think about it and you best rethink your long term strategy. At this moment, I am looking seriously about another keyboard and software for my music production, and you can bet I will not recommend you to any of my professional or lay musician friends.

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 425 Pro

    Well THIS is a bit of a pain. I have a MK1, and was hoping to move it to the other room for knocking out the occasional melody or harmony.

    I would have liked to have a year of support on the MK1. In 2024, I could probably buy a second MK3...or a MK2 off of Reverb or Ebay.

    But right now? After paying $850 for a MK3? Sheesh, not yet, people.

  • gviio
    gviio Member Posts: 13 Member

    I’m confused.

    I have an mkI and NI know I do. They have my email. It’s registered with that email. I also have a mkII.

    Why is this important news just shared here and not via email? I only found out by accident via a Reddit post.

    NI communication with customers is awful.

    Guess what email I did receive from NI yesterday?

    “Recommended for you: Komplete 14 Standard”.

    I own Komplete 14 UCE.

    Feels like software support ends with v.2.9.4, but customer support ends the moment you buy anything.

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 425 Pro

    Well, it's not all THAT bad. NI's communication has markedly improved this year.

    But that's not a guarantee that their marketing is going to be able to dynamically look you up before sending you an individually custom-tailored email.

    And your comment, "customer support ends the moment you buy anything"...

    That's not true, and you know it. MK1 has been available for a decade! That's a lot longer than a "moment"!

  • 6xes
    6xes Member Posts: 573 Pro

    like another user mentions... finding out on the EOL of the mk1 on reddit, was a suprise for me today...

    would have been nice to have seen this... as a system wide notice on this Site

    anyway... ill have to be mindful about what works& what wont with my S88 mk1 here on out

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 3,993 Expert

    Premise: I will answer with some exaggerations, I know, but it’s for the sake of showing another point of view


    I’m happy you are convinced NI cares “quite deeply”, but…

    Working for a company based in Berlin but continue living at 2 days train distance doesn’t sound too “eco friendly”, even if then you decide to go there by train instead of airplane… And a train consuming for 2 days isn’t that much better than an airplane flying for 2 hours. Well…it is…but you get my point: you care about environment? Go live close to where you work, or if you want to stay close to your dears, take a work where you already live.

    E-waste: you have a keyboard that is just a midi controller therefore all the features are granted by the software. You can improve the software to give more features and not having to build new hardwares and waste the old ones (of course making users pay for the improvements…no one is working for free) (Yes, this is the most exaggerated… I perfectly understand companies have to offer new products in order to continue gaining money. But…where I lived as a child, I used to see working trucks of a very famous company marching by one after the other in the morning going to work and in the evening coming back. Those truck were so well made that I still can see them every morning and every evening going and coming back from their duties, after 40 years. And what did the company do? They just reinvented themselves selling spare pieces to fix the few problems their trucks had because of the time passing by. Now…in my opinion THIS is “caring quite deeply”: make a product that is so good that it will last forever…and eventually reinvent yourself, since you won’t sell any more truck, since the old ones are still working. Yes…maybe this is an example a little bit to the extreme, but it demonstrates that things CAN be done correctly…)

    Components and packaging: building devices in plastic also doesn’t sound too eco-friendly…and don’t tell me a 1000 bucks keyboard can’t be built with other materials…it’s just that the profit will diminish. And…between…is not that the prices were lowered by using plastic…it’s the profit that did increase. On the packaging front: best way to reduce them? Not having to send new devices around the globe cause the features have been added software-wise (see previous point).

    About servers costs…I prefer not to even start to talk about this, specially with a company that is forcing users to remain tied to them, not providing installation files or the good old installation CDs/Hard disks…


    Yes…all exaggerated… as was your “quite deeply”…let’s say you care about environment as much as a commercial company pointing at the maximum profit can do. But there are also companies who understand that they must cut a little bit their profits, in order to make things in the best way they can to reduce the humanity footprints on this planet.

    That said, I want to end this discussion (that is derailing the main topic a little bit too much) by anyway applauding any initiative you are doing to improve the things (as the packaging one), because I don’t want to sound like the one criticizing anything in any case. Every step made in the right direction, being it long as it could be or even a little shorter, is more than welcome

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