Komplete Kontrol S series MK1 keyboards End Of Life

1131416181943

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  • Custom Blue
    Custom Blue Member Posts: 33 Member

    Still no news on any possible upgrade discount for disgruntled MK1 owners?

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,282 Expert

    @DS99

    "RME has always been a role model in terms of first-class quality and support. Many other pro companies can take an example from this! Especially because they always satisfy all users with much less staff. "

    If you are really going to compare audio drivers (RME) with what is going on with Komplete Kontrol software/hardware (regardless of series/version) you probably need to think about this a bit.

    Yes - RME is the undisputed king of supporting their interfaces (I know because I have two of them) - but their "support" is light years away from what is going on with your typical Komplete Kontrol keyboard (and its associated software)

    Drivers are (seemingly) easy for RME - they wrote the book on this 25+ years ago and consistently take their knowledge and repurpose it quickly for each new device they make and OS that comes along.

    But let's be honest - once RME has one working driver - they have all working drivers. (Each with specific nuances for the various RME hardware offerings).

    RME also never really strays too far from center on their interfaces either. My 2022 UCX-II has a startling number of features that match up with my 2009 Multiface - so given their team and extensive "driver" know how - it is really not a stretch for them to keep "support" going. And good on them. But it is still not an oranges-to-oranges compare.

    RME does not need to deal with NKS, they do not need to deal with third party developers or a billion VSTs out there (that ALL need to work correctly in KK) ranging in quality from barely passable to excellent.

    RME does not have to deal with the baggage that comes with interfacing with something as ornery as Kontakt or the minefield of NI product authorization or the huge NI eco-system and so on and so on.

    While it's a comparison - it's a distant one.

    VP

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 413 Advisor

    I get it I just thought this would just still be called NKS with just added capabilities and the same GUI philosophy and full product compatibility. Having an A61 supported but not an KK s49 MK1 supported doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO

  • DS99
    DS99 Member Posts: 38 Member
    edited October 2023

    Thank you very much for your answer. I can understand some of the complexity, that's certainly true. I was more concerned with a general claim that NI has always communicated with flagship products. If I take Massive X for example, the bugs that have not been fixed for years, then I'm sure a lot of users who bought the product and hoped that the support would work as it once did would agree with me. You simply have to be able to expect something like that with products around 200€. As far as KK software is concerned: If you only own NI products, you don't care about other 3rd party companies. Then the software should be further developed just as well and, as already mentioned, user preset management should be integrated, which still doesn't work well. That is one of the main aspects why you use them. You want to be able to manage your own sounds well. Once you have worked with the KK software, you are practically dependent on it for sound management. And NI users simply have to be preferred before you think about other manufacturers. I want to make it clear that I love NI products like Massive X, FM8, Abysnth, but NI must also admit that their update policy is much too slow, as in the case of Massive X and KK Kontrol software. Please always think about how much money you invest (also Kontrol keyboards).

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,401 mod

    It's a question of variables.

    We have exponentially more variables.

    FWIW, I am a years long RME user. Great great products.

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,401 mod
  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,282 Expert

    @Matthew_NI

    "We have exponentially more variables"

    Exactly - there is no real comparison here.

    VP

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,282 Expert

    @DS99

    "As far as KK software is concerned: If you only own NI products, you don't care about other 3rd party companies. Then the software should be further developed just as well and, as already mentioned, user preset management should be integrated, which still doesn't work well. That is one of the main aspects why you use them."

    I honestly do not believe that NI set out to release KKv3 - with a specific intent to screw us all over by removing everything that made KK2.9.4 useable.

    Yes - KKv3 is new. Yes - it's rough. And yes - it is a letdown in many ways. But this type of thing is not uncommon in the software world. It will take time to get the right fit, finish and polish. But it will get better.

    Patience is hard but it's what we need at this time. 2.9.4 works great. Let's rock.

    VP

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,051 Expert

    @Vocalpoint

    If you are really going to compare audio drivers (RME) with what is going on with Komplete Kontrol software/hardware (regardless of series/version) you probably need to think about this a bit.

    Well, I would say, it is way harder to make and debug audio driver than to make KK app.

    And RME supports really old hardware. KK Mk1 has been replaced by mk2 only 5.5 years ago.... It is pretty new HW.

    RME also makes, beside audio drivers, TotalMix and DigiCheck (and other SW to support their HW) which is way more complex than KK SW.

    And, it has happened to my friend, that he found that driver for new model of interface reports wrong latency to DAW. RME has fixed it within few days after he has reported it....

    I understand, NI has huge portfolio of SW to maintain and so on.... But still....

    Generally, NI could include KK MK1 into KK3 and next versions of Maschine.... They could make some kind of wrapper to behave like newer HW, or somethin similar. But they decided no.

    It is very similar with the decision not to let users authorise some of older plugins.... The explanation was similar. Old technology, security and so on. But they could go on. At least with offline authorisation. But it would cost human resources and so on.

    Instead NI has decided to violate EULA and restrict users in their rights. If someone put it to the court, I bet he would win.

    On one side, I understand NI, but generaly, it is not good in any way....

  • kinen_papico
    kinen_papico Member Posts: 9 Member
  • kinen_papico
    kinen_papico Member Posts: 9 Member

    When kore became discontinued, Maschine was offered on sale for $399. I have high hopes for this time as well.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,461 Expert
    edited October 2023

    I must admit very valid points have been brought to the table here.

    But some things remain valid in my opinion.

    If I compare oranges that cost 2€ a kilo to oranges that cost 10€ a kilo, I expect the latter to be more tasty.

    And if oranges are audio interfaces, why NI oranges continually get abandoned (AUDIO 2 / 4 / 8 DJ, TRAKTOR AUDIO 2 MK1,…) while RME oranges are still eatable?

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,282 Expert

    @Kubrak

    "Well, I would say, it is way harder to make and debug audio driver than to make KK app"

    I would challenge this by saying:

    Not if you have been doing it for 20+ years and have a truckload of working code for virtually all scenarios.

    I am guessing the RME never has to start from scratch on anything these days and can get something working (regardless of OS) in short order. Probably the primary reason they can provide 85 years of support and keep things rolling :)

    Like Matt put it - the "variables" here that a KK instance needs to manage vs an audio driver - are not even in the same ballpark.

    VP

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,051 Expert
    edited October 2023

    @Vocalpoint

    Well, KK is here for some time already....

    RME has several drivers to maintain. And those drivers have to support tens of HW with diverse capabilities... They have bugs in their SW, but they fix it regullary....

    But OK. Lets take TotalMix, it is closer to KK. Maybe even by age....

    I develop SW and have to maintain and further develop non simple SW that has 30+ years old codebase.... So, I understand NI from one side, but on the other side I know, that it should be possible to include KK MK2 into KK3 and future Maschine.... But it would cost something, of course....

    I think the reason not to include support is financial, not technological. The same with putting down authorisation of very old NI SW. Again, IMHO financial reason, not technological....

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,051 Expert

    @LostInFoundation

    If I compare oranges that cost 2€ a kilo to oranges that cost 10€ a kilo, I expect the latter to be more tasty.

    And if oranges are audio interfaces, why NI oranges continually get abandoned (AUDIO 2 / 4 / 8 DJ, TRAKTOR AUDIO 2 MK1,…) while RME oranges are still eatable?

    RME audiointerfaces are for sure more tasty and way, way more expensive than NI ones....

    But for example KK S88 MK1 compares by price to some RME interfaces. The support for KK S88 MK1 has been stopped 5.5 years since end of sale by NI and even less if buying from other vendors.

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