Big shoutout to all NI Maschine Developers and a HeadsUp to all Maschine Users
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Just to settle this:
Based on the marketing of the Maschine ecosystem back in 2016, which includes screenshots of the application itself: It shows tempo and time signature information prominently alongside the transport. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that you would be able to automate those parameters, even if such a feature is not explicitly advertised, because "why would someone design it that way or even include the ability to set a tempo or time signature if you couldn't automate changes of those parameters?". That's the problem. You absolutely cannot fault me for thinking this way or blame me for "not doing enough research." because only a dumb person would design a product this way. It is absolutely the company's fault for misrepresenting their own product line in this way, whether intentionally, or through ignorance and short-sightedness. And BTW the tempo/time sig thing is an issue (either one, the other, or both.) in almost every "Standalone Groovebox" on the market. It's not unique to native instruments, which is why I think it is a "consumer rights" problem. I said this in another thread: even new guitarists get just about everything they need to play guitar if they buy something cheap or used. Cheap guitars may compromise on the quality of the sound or materials, but you still get all the strings and tone controls that your average guitar will get. Even if you keep that ****** guitar for your whole life, the quality of the instrument itself will not affect your ability to grow as an artist. If you're a great guitarist, your ****** guitar won't make you less great because it's not designed in such a way that limits your range of motion, it includes the same amount of strings as a high-end guitar, it's got a TS jack instead of like an RCA Jack, etc. Synthesizers and grooveboxes have no such standardization, and I think they should. Sequencing & scoring tools can (and do serve) as prosthetic devices for people who simply do not have the manual dexterity or lifestyle accommodations to play a regular instrument, and they need to include tools adequate enough to program in as much articulation as a live performer could get. By saying "Maschine is fine blah blah blah" you're committing the just world fallacy. It's fine for you, but it's not fine for everyone else & people like myself are justifiably annoyed at the direction this company takes their products. No amount of "My techno album that I made entirely in maschine did well" is going to make this device ecosystem an objectively worthwhile purchase, especially for people whose blood pressure rises when spending more than $300 at a time.
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Funny, because I said something good about Maschine, someone actually flagges my thread as SPAM 😂
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It can only be the biggest cretin of all.
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I didn't flag anybody's comments. The fact that you are hung up on the "techno DJ" thing instead of consumer advocacy is silly to me. The point I was making was that tempo/time sig automation is such an essential feature, that it's a massive oversight not to have included it as early as version 1 of the Maschine Software. In addition, given the fact that tempo and time signature information were prominently displayed in the screenshots of the marketing material in all versions of Maschine, users could not be faulted for assuming that such properties could be automated. No amount of workarounds or being told "do your research" is going to change the underlying truth behind the two points I made earlier. I did extensive research on Maschine before I bought it, and as I mentioned, I shouldn't have to double-check that a commercial software groovebox is able to deal with more complicated rhythmic structures without awkward workarounds. Rhythm is a such a fundamental aspect of music, that if you aren't including tempo/time sig automation in your groovebox software, then you're screwing up massively. And to screw up that badly, you'd have to be pretty lacking as a musician/software developer/team leader/etc. Does anybody understand what I'm saying? Why would anybody design it this way in the first place & why am I at fault for expecting a product to do what it says it does?
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Why would anybody design it this way in the first place
As a performance instrument, a groovebox does not necessarily need to have a timeline and therefore may not be able to offer the ability to prescript changes to the flow of time.
why am I at fault for expecting a product to do what it says it does?
You assumed a product to do what you thought it should be capable of - which can of course diverge from product reality. I don’t think it was ever announced that Maschine offers a song timeline or time signature and tempo changes. So you most probably expected something that was never said.
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That's kind of ridiculous to state that I shouldn't expect Maschine to have automatable tempo or time sigs. Any regular person looking at the marketing material for the device would assume that it could, simply because it shows that those two parameters are editable/user definable. That'd be like me selling you a new bike without a seat and telling you that you're an idiot for assuming a bike should have a seat. "Just because we show a bike seat in the marketing material doesn't mean you're gonna get one." "Well it's kind of useless without a seat" "have you tried pedaling without a seat? You can still use the bike as it is.". I do not understand how you people can be so delusional as to defend something so obviously ill-conceived.
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Any regular person looking at the marketing material for the device would assume that it could, simply because it shows that those two parameters are editable/user definable.
Maschine does not have a timeline and it does not have automation for any other parameter, why should it have it for tempo? Bonus question, how and why would you automate time signatures?!
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It must be a bot. Dear sweet mother of the Lord.
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?
What do you mean with “Maschine doesn’t have a timeline” and “it does not have automation for any other parameter”?
In any case…no, not every time someone doesn’t think exactly as we think or he makes the mistake to diminish someone just because he is a techno dj that makes of him a bot
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By the way, the fact is:
you definitely CAN automate time signature in maschine (and write polymeters). Although the way to do it is not the "classical" way of other softwares (with a tempo track that you can manipulate).
If you buy a bike based on an ad showing disc brakes, it doesn't mean you'll get ABS.
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How is the song mode not a timeline? Maschine plays your sequences from start to finish unless you enable looping.
Dude, we shouldn't even be discussing the how/why because Ableton already does it. You can set the time signature per clip and per scene, then automate tempo changes in the arrange view. I know ableton is a DAW, but "Ideas View" is a direct appropriation of Session View, which begs the question as to why they chose to steal some things vs. others. You'd want to automate tempo because a lot of genres of music incorporate tempo changes, and the same is true with time signatures.
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No amount of rant here will ever automate your tempo. Sell your M+, get a Push 3 standalone, and live a happy life automating your tempo every bar if you want to.
And, you can automate time sig in maschine.
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At this point you guys are just repeating the same stuff, over and over. As am I. I'm going to keep saying "These features should be officially supported, and I think that these specific features are so fundamentally important that it is an oversight not to have included them" and you're gonna keep your fingers in your ears, shouting "BUT THERE ARE WORKAROUNDS! YOU JUST HAVE TO PULL YOURSELF OUT OF THE FLOW STATE AND THINK FOR A SECOND", all the while claiming I am the unprofessional, hostile one. I didn't make a "Maschine is good actually guys stop complaining" thread about my own album release. Positivity is toxic when it involves talking over people with legitimate grievances.
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No bot, I don’t agree with you, I don’t see automated tempo and time signatures as essential and vital features, and I definitely did not expect or assume those parameters to exist only by looking at an image. The problem isn’t your wish for these functions to exist. The problem is your way of sharing your thoughts and wishes. It’s essential TO YOU. YOU made the assumption that those would be automatable parameters, and NO, not everyone, nor 10% of the people watching an image of a groovebox on a cardboard box make that assumption.
The problem is you, bot. Not your feature requests. You write the exact same things all over the forum and turn any topic into your “everyone understands this sure this should work it’s only lower forms of species that don’t see this everyone is incompetent and the maschine developers are incompetent I know everything because I’m the bot God of all music and my music is so advanced not even the most advanced AI would be able to copy or understand” bla bla bla bla.
Us, mortals, humans, get your messages, we understand what you’re after, but you don’t get why people aren’t taking your side. TBH I suspect you are deep in the autism spectral because this lack of social skills to me is just as frustrating as not being able to automate tempo is for you.
peace out bot
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Oh, btw, where can I check out your album? I am sincerely interested in hearing and analyzing your hyperadvanced non-comprehendable music, but maybe, just maybe, will I enjoy it anyway even though I wouldn’t grasp the totality of your music because it’s probably on a level only Mozart and Zeus would appreciate.
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