Big shoutout to all NI Maschine Developers and a HeadsUp to all Maschine Users

ozon

@LostInFoundation

What do you mean with “Maschine doesn’t have a timeline” and “it does not have automation for any other parameter”?

Well, if it does, please show me!

Maschine has pattern based modulation of parameters, which are relative in time and value. That is very different from automation which is absolute in time and value.

And I don’t think you can place Scene 1 at 47 seconds after the song starts. Every Scene is immediately followed by the next Scene. It’s a sequence of Scenes, not Scenes on a timeline.

Now Clips are a bit in between, and therefore are cumbersome to handle.

LostInFoundation

Got it.

I agree Clips are cumbersome, but cumbersome doesn’t mean you can’t do things, just that it’s gonna be less immediate.

Even placing a scene at 47 sec can be done. It’s enough to create another scene before that lasts 47 sec. Or using the cumbersome Clips.

Same can be said for automation: create a pattern long the whole song and your automations will be absolute in time.

As we said…really cumbersome, as every Maschine user knows. But I don’t think that saying that Maschine doesn’t have a timeline or it does not have automation for any other parameter is 100% correct (even only, as you said, if we want to relegate it to patterns).

Let’s say it has those things, even if in a different (cumbersome) way

ozon

@Max Trau

you definitely CAN automate time signature in maschine (and write polymeters).

What do you mean exactly by automate time signature and how do you achieve it?

Im seriously curious because up to now, I just worked with different Pattern lengths, mostly over a 4/4 or 6/8 signature as base.

ozon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/98646#Comment_98646

Your workarounds are proof that Maschine does not use the concept of a timeline.

Why would you insist of it having one? How is it helpful to work with an imaginary timeline in Maschine? This is a serious workflow question, as I always start with combining Patterns to various Scenes in Ideas View and then might sequence them into Sections in Song mode. I’ve never had the impression that I can place Scenes freely on a timeline. Perhaps I’m overlooking some features of the Song mode.

LostInFoundation

I was just saying that song mode IS a concept of timeline. Not the one we would like to have, but nonetheless it is a timeline

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/98542#Comment_98542

Who says a timeline has to be absolute?

I consider a pattern to be a timeline.

How can it not be?

You are triggering events against time, absolute or not.

tribepop

I personally think that they haven’t implemented time signature/bpm automation because of the limitations of the sampler and audio modules.

If you have a project that is having bpm changes mid-song, the only way any of that would still be coherent would be if you were only using one-shots like drums hits or synths and if you have loops they would need to be running in “Stretch” mode which will thrash your CPU quickly. Maschine has never been built to handle real-time stretching on a project wide level which is pretty unfortunate.

ozon

@nightjar offered

Who says a timeline has to be absolute?

It is how we generally perceive time (except if you come from another dimension - but then I’d have more important questions). And it would become pretty mind bending to work with a multitude of conflicting timelines, each having their own time signatures and tempo modulation.

I consider a pattern to be a timeline.

So you end up with a pattern multiverse of timelines. This is an interesting approach, which the majority probably might find confusing. And I wonder whether it fully matches the whole Maschine concept, since - AFAIK - Patterns can neither have local tempo, nor can they repeat fully independent of other Patterns. But I’ll have to give this idea another shot.

djadidai

I love where this is going! Multidimensional automated tempos per pattern, meaning that I can automate tempos and signatures individually per dimension and pattern? So depending on density of the environment of that dimension can also be a factor in the selected tempo automation per pattern in a particular dimension? Something that is fast here can be slow there? Whoa!

nightjar

You can't have a tempo without time.

That's just how it is where we live.

D-One

@djadidai

Something that is fast here can be slow there? Whoa!

It's possible.... if you're close enough to a black hole. 😅

djadidai

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/98801#Comment_98801

How would a musical timeline look in a black hole? And how would that pattern sound?

Cretin Dilettante

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/98765#Comment_98765

Oh hai, the first plausible, non-troll explanation as to "why is this so hard to implement?". TY. This makes sense, but it's still kinda dumb. Very dumb, actually. Devastatingly dumb, come to think. I just want to be able to do 99% of my writing in Maschine, instead of 80%. Sad day.

ozon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/98765#Comment_98765

I have a hard time to belive that the sampling capability should be the reason for Maschine‘s severely limited (or inexistent, depending on PoV) timeline.

Especially since it is possible to change tempo continuously while a project is running. A feature that was available right from the start, unlike VSTs or time stretch. Maschine Mk1 even had a dedicated controller labeled Tempo for that purpose.

Side note: It always baffled me that NI has much better time stretching algorithms in other products, but never bothered to bring them to Maschine. Instead, we’re stuck with the subpar status quo of the Audio module.

jonesbeim

I'm in the process of setting up a techno live act, 100% made on Maschine standalone (with a good ol' MK2 and Jam, two different instances going thru Traktor to mix them and avoid the loading times), and yes, i second your statement.