iZotope Music Production Suite 6 released..

PK The DJ

the hundreds or thousands you've paid into the subscription means nothing

Welcome to life on planet earth. This is normal. Most people pay out monthly or yearly for all sorts of things, and never get anything back.

Home insurance. Car insurance. Mobile phone service. Internet connections. Electricity and gas to your home. Water to your home. Streaming music and/or video. The list is endless.

Vocalpoint

"If you ever want to actually own a perpetual license so that you can stop paying for it someday, the hundreds or thousands you've paid into the subscription means nothing"

Agree with PK - truer words have never been spoken.

Like other have noted - if you are expecting someone to comfort you due to your "loss" of hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of "subscription rental" time - you will be waiting a long time.

There is no such thing as "good" subscription platform or "rewards". If you find a vendor that "offers" this - great. But don't think they are doing you a favor - that "reward" that you think is cool - is just another way for them to get you - to stay in the game.

For all vendors - this is business and business equals you giving them money - and (hopefully) they give you something useful.

Luckily you can always choose in this game - you are either in or out. But spending and watching your software license age rapidly (and non-gracefully) is part of the game - like it or not.

VP

replicant6

To each their own, like you say. But subscribing isn't a solution to the perpetual license upgrade issues with iZotope that started the discussion. It is not inherently better to subscribe just because you might end up paying less per year to do that, unless you think software subscriptions should work like car insurance. Personally, I want as few things to work like car insurance as possible, and I'd like to keep those things far away from my music projects.

I didn't say I expect people to comfort me for any losses to subscription services. I'm an advocate of not using those services, so no comfort needed! But there are plenty of examples of subscription services where you don't need to be comforted for those losses because they don't exist or are very minor.

I subscribed to Kilohearts for a few years until I acquired enough of their products from my yearly voucher combined with occasional sales, then I canceled my subscription and only lost access to the products I don't use. Now I own those licenses and no longer have to pay for them. On the iZotope model, I wouldn't own anything after canceling my subscription.

Point being, at the end of my subscription period, if I'm back to 0, then it's not worth it in my opinion.

nightjar

What you own should you choose to discontinue a creative tool subscription, is the stuff you created with it.

Choice is good.

replicant6

I can't disagree there! If someone only wants those creative tools for the length of the subscription and they know they will not want to tweak their songs again later, then it makes perfect sense.

For me, being able to rely on those creative tools being part of my creative toolset is my end goal, and for a subscription like iZotope that would mean financial burden that will never decrease or end. The only way to end the financial obligation would be to replace the plugins in every one of my projects with different plugins entirely (a potentially massive undertaking), or cut my losses and purchase full licenses, but then I might as well have just done that from the start since the subscription doesn't help me get there.

spock

Great, we have a software suite that generates latency in a host (Maschine) that doesn't have latency compensation. Well done, guys!

Vocalpoint

"Point being, at the end of my subscription period, if I'm back to 0, then it's not worth it in my opinion"

Doesn't really matter if it's subscription or perpetual or whatever - all software turns to 0 after an undetermined amount of time has passed. It is inevitable and unavoidable.

Unless of course - you manage to find the will to never upgrade AND manage to keep that investment (and a computer to run it on) working year after year until you no longer need it - or get out of music completely.

For me - best value AND guaranteed access for the long term - is by buying the license outright. Luckily all my iZotope licenses are owned and really - how often does one really need to upgrade their stuff?

I have updated something like Music Production Suite maybe 2 times in the last 10 years and I still only have really used/learned maybe 5% of the capability of the suite.

There is no way I would ever consider a sub to them or any other plugin vendor.

VP

Bazebuster

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/93641#Comment_93641

but, what do you use - the assistant? I meant to have read, that only the assistant delays audio 🤔. I’m happy not to work a lot in Maschine, it‘s not my thing - I mean I have it, but actually don‘t use it often. My way of working and opinion is, that it‘s good For making (small) beats and things. But I can‘t wrap my brain around it - because it‘s just not my way of working - and it has no latency compensation (? 😱)

holonology

For me, the subscription debate is simple. It is not an evil or bad way of doing business, but I do think there's a way of doing it that is best for customers.

The current iZotope system works as what I would describe as a base level subscription:

1. The iZotope Model. Subscribe to access, without losing access to old work. To me this is the bare minimum. Sure you can access your old projects. But if you made a mistake or want to change anything and you are unsubscribed? Tough luck. It's better than losing access to the plugin all together of course, but companies can go further than this. At the end of a years subscription, you should be allowed retrospective access and use of the plugins that you have paid $200 for in existing projects, including editability. I understand that this may be difficult to implement. But if complete loss of plugin functionality is the outcome of unsubscribing, then the price should reflect that.

For me the parameters of a fair(er) subscription model are:

1. The LoopyPro Model. Pay a base price to access the iZotope system + buy a pass that grants you access to all updates in the coming 12 months. Access upgrades to new or advanced features anytime to suit your needs and budget. The base price always includes all basic features available in the plugins, and feature ongoing bug fixes for backwards compatibility. The thing that is much more preferable about this approach is that you keep the software you paid for. Sure, you may not have the latest and greatest update. But if you need to open an old project and make changes; you can still use it because you keep what you buy forever.
2. The Kilohearts Model. Rent to own-ish. Similar to the LoppyPro model, as new features are added (though not always to the thing you're subscribed to.) Convert your subscription (and thus support for the company) into coupons that can be redeemed against a license for one of their products. Once you've paid up, you can choose to own the software by converting it into a perpetual license.

On a more general note, I feel that the issue for NI as the lead brand is likely one of competition. Adobe moved to a subscription model but they have no functioning opposition in the market. Any close competitors are either bought out if they are a threat, or left to slowly disappear. iZotope gear is good gear, don't get me wrong. But the Fabfilter bundle can be had for the same price as an iZotope subscription for a couple years. Likelihood is you're gonna get 5 years or more out of that bundle. It's the whole quantity/quality thing again.

I'm kinda on the fence about it. I don't mind subscriptions, but there are better models out there that are more customer friendly and deliver more value for what is a consistent investment in that company.

Scoops

I own NI Komplete 14 UC, but I only use about 10 to 20% of the stuff (Absynthe, FM8, Cremona, Omnia, the Granduer and some of the expansion modules as needed)

I own Izotope Everything, but again, only use a small percentage (RX advanced, Ozone Advanced, and Symphony is my go to reverb)

I got the max on both of these packages because I got good pricing. For NI,I really wanted the Cremona, and it was cheaper to to buy the UC package. For IZ, I really wanted RX advanced, but buying a bundle was cheaper

I feel the subscription will be like all other subscriptions (especially cable TV), and I have to pay for the top tier to get the 3 stations that I want to watch

If NI/IZ go to the cable TV subscription model, they will loose a longtime customer.

If NI/IZ goes to a "module" model, where I would pay for only the things I want, I'd probably stay

replicant6

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/93691#Comment_93691

That point keeps getting made in this discussion, that all software eventually becomes useless, but that is on an entirely different scale and for an entirely different reason than no longer wanting to pay a subscription fee. It's good to minimize the different number of ways that software can become useless, and in my opinion it's good to minimize the different number of places that you owe never-ending payments to.

I'm in full agreement that owning perpetual licenses is the way to go. I don't mind subscription services when they help you work toward perpetual licenses, but a subscription like iZotope's doesn't and is not one that I would even consider. The reason I pay for music software is to be able to rely on that version of that software being available to me for as long as I choose to maintain a compatible environment. Financial obligation should end at some point, ideally well before that time of the software being obsolete.

But sometimes a good subscription platform actually helps people like me who want to own perpetual licenses. Paying $249 for a year of Plugin Alliance Unlimited and then getting to pick 10 perpetual licenses is a better deal than just buying 10 of their plugins outright (in some cases a much, much better deal), plus you get 12 months to try everything and decide which 10 plugins you want, so there really is no downside if your goal is to own at least that number of their plugins. Those are the types of subscriptions I can get behind.

Vocalpoint

"Paying $249 for a year of Plugin Alliance Unlimited and then getting to pick 10 perpetual licenses is a better deal than just buying 10 of their plugins outright (in some cases a much, much better deal), plus you get 12 months to try everything and decide which 10 plugins you want, so there really is no downside if your goal is to own at least that number of their plugins. Those are the types of subscriptions I can get behind."

Depends how you want to look at it and where you want that (ongoing) $249 to go - year in and year out. If you are a huge fan of Plugin Alliance and can get full value out of that sub - more power to you. And sure - the bonus of 10 plugins outright is excellent. But that's them. These kinds of subs are rare and do not represent the general consensus.

That said - not even sure where everyone is coming from on iZotope here either - since I am not aware of ANY subscriptions for their stuff. They still all perpetual as of now - but are on a sneaky one-year cycle (that sorta feels like a sub) where they try to bait and switch folks annually for very little value. No one should ever bite on this. (unless a $49.00 deal like JRRShop was on the table - but that disappeared fast).

NI is the same way - Komplete is the ultimate cash cow - but the smart DAW user out there will already know where the value proposition lies and it most certainly not in upgrading every cycle.

I only have one single sub in my life right now - it's with Output and monthly access to their completely mindblowing Arcade application. It's 10 bucks a month and if there was ever a better value proposition out there (as long as your music can benefit from Arcade) I have never seen it.

These guys do it right - there is no perpetual license - but that is more from practical "space" reasons than anything else - the Arcade sound library literally never stops growing and the stuff they add - practically day in and day out - boggles the mind. It's really one of the only subs that keeps on givin!

Continued success on the sub search!

VP

replicant6

To each their own, like you say. But subscribing isn't a solution to the perpetual license upgrade issues with iZotope that started the discussion. It is not inherently better to subscribe just because you might end up paying less per year to do that, unless you think software subscriptions should work like car insurance. Personally, I want as few things to work like car insurance as possible, and I'd like to keep those things far away from my music projects.

I didn't say I expect people to comfort me for any losses to subscription services. I'm an advocate of not using those services, so no comfort needed! But there are plenty of examples of subscription services where you don't need to be comforted for those losses because they don't exist or are very minor.

Case in point, I subscribed to Kilohearts for a few years until I acquired enough of their products from my yearly voucher combined with occasional sales, then I canceled my subscription and only lost access to the products I don't use. Now I own those licenses and no longer have to pay for them. On the iZotope model, I wouldn't own anything after canceling my subscription.

Vocalpoint

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/94985#Comment_94985

Again - what "perpetual license upgrade issues" with iZotope? (that started this discussion)

And why keep associating/comparing iZotope to a subscription model?

There is NO subscription model for them that I am aware of.

I am feeling like I missed something here and we are drifting for reasons unknown (to me anyway).

Not exactly motivated to re-read this entire thread.

VP