Is Plugin Delay Compensation being worked on?



  • Beetleborg93
    Beetleborg93 Member Posts: 9 Member

    Hey Jeremy I have been a part of the beta but I can't seem to participate in anything when I login. Do you know why this is?

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 253 Advisor

    Or having in the channel menu a way to offset track delay in positive or negative value. would really be ideal

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,103 mod

    That would be awesome! Not sure this would solve the issues that folks that want PDC have tho, they would have to know the exact delay of each track and MAS does not report that.

  • Chrisjordan
    Chrisjordan Member Posts: 2 Newcomer
    edited January 2022

    How can I become a Maschine software beta tester, Jeremy?

    I attempted to register as a beta tester on the Native Instruments website in the past, but received no response.

    Eng is my first language.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 7,810 mod

    I'll forward your email to the team and they'll send you an invite.

  • Nikal Might
    Nikal Might Member Posts: 21 Member

    I have the biggest problems with latency issues with Izotope plugins. Since they're supposed to be sister companies now, I hope NI and Izotope get together and sort this out, so I can use Izotope stuff in Maschine.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,103 mod
    edited January 2022

    Those issues are expected due to what the product is designed to do, the current audio technology available and their target audience.

    The best iZotope could do is either make "Live" versions of the plugins with less "quality" or have a way to disable the processing features that make it "high quality" but if that's the goal then why not use another lower-end product that already works like that? For example, making Ozone lower quality when it's designed for Mastering would be strange as Mastering engineers need all the bells and whistles and do it separately/after music production when latency doesn't matter.

    There is one example I can think of where iZotope did make special plugins, they collaborated with Serato DJ Pro to make FX plugins specifically designed for DJ'ing, where obviously latency has to be minimal, I guess they could do something similar for Maschine / Traktor but don't expect it to ever have the same "quality" as the tools designed for mastering as that's just impossible.

    For example, lookahead has major benefits for limiters, dynamic eqs, and all sorts of processing to diminish distortion and artifacts but to do it it has to predict the future AKA know what audio will be coming ahead of time, since time traveling defies the laws of physics either you end up with the track delayd or with PDC you delay all the other tracks so things line up. There are other heavy processing features involved too like oversampling and linear phase stuff... That's how it is and there's no way around it.

  • jakubpatok
    jakubpatok Member Posts: 40 Helper

    I forgot about the thread but thank you for all the responses! I really appreciate the interest. I see some criticism so I'll try to explain.

    I am aware of how the PDC works. It would be mainly useful if you want to mix and master after you finish recording and making a beat. I personally work with Maschine mainly as a standalone and it is almost impossible to comfortably mix the track without exporting stems into another DAW. Implementing Plugin Delay Compensation would allow us to use heavier plugins as well. It is important to mention that now, as Maschine doesn't have PDC at all, some of the plugins that cause even little delay can make some of your sounds not play in sync. PDC would be useful even if you do not mix in Maschine so that all your plugins always play in sync without any problem. Obviously, turning it off would have to be possible but I don't see a reason for that. Using heavy plugins in Maschine is not possible in Maschine right now so you can continue not using them and you wouldn't notice a difference. Also, if you add a plugin like iZotope's De-Click on a sound, your whole beat will be broken anyway because one track will play much later (not in sync) than the rest of the tracks in your beat. You cannot use it at all right now while with PDC you would be able to use such heavy plugins at least after you finish recording.

  • basehead617
    basehead617 Member Posts: 111 Advisor

    Not having PDC is particularly problematic for using my UAD plugs.. huge bummer..

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,103 mod
    edited January 2022


    I am aware of how the PDC works.

    Im sure you do. I added some explanation for everyone else reading this because as I said people often think PDC just magically removes plugin delay. I don't mean to underestimate a specific user's knowledge or to be rude, I just tend to add info and background on hot topics.

    Obviously, turning it off would have to be possible but I don't see a reason for that.

    The reason is simple: I prefer to have some tracks with delay rather than having absolutely everything delayed because I use the HW controllers, if I press Pads and it takes a while to hear the result because there's a heavy De-Clicker On it's the same as recording with a huge latency, it makes the HW unusable to me and my priority is the HW control since it's really the only edge Maschine has over DAW's. HW needs to be as close to instant as possible IMHO. A declick plug with 600ms is an extreme example, I wouldn't personally use it in real time anyway but something with 30ms would already rekt my workflow.

    People have been upset with me for having this opinion in the past so for the record, I am not against PDC as long as it's optional. I better remove myself from this convo before someone gets angry again

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 253 Advisor

    The problem is wanting an ALL IN ONE solution. Each tool has its purpose. Having an edit button in Maschine to open RX for declicking would be more appropriate, why having delay compensation when you don't have proper audio tracks or rendering in place solutions. Still in the DAW/Not DAW Maschine debate. I tried importing stems in maschine setting pattern length and convert to clip assuming that stretching would have no effect using the right tempo but it was not great. MASCHINE still offers what you need to get clarity, punch in your premix, even loudness for finished usable product without being too picky. Though, for bringing texture, character and getting all the headroom you need it clearly won't be appropriate for logical reason and using the right tool for the right purpose is the way to go. Though, if you play live with your MASCHINE and hardware in a good club or live event, a good sound engineer will make you the best possible sound on the wall using his tools for the greatness of the show and make the public happy. We should stop wanting all in one solutions. A Swiss knife can get you further than what a simple knife could do but it won't chop off a head line a katana that will never unscrew anything. MASCHINE is a great tool and is already surrounded by an incredible history of NI tools that could always evolve and complement each other hand in hand. Alliance with izotope, why not ? I just hope it is for the best and for good reason as from my point of view, NI always had the tools and power to be autonomous and prosperous. Still, I love good weddings gathering excellences and hope for the best in that scheme. Time will tell

  • defyosef
    defyosef Member Posts: 31 Member

    Wondering a bit if it's not a prioritized issue because the software-controller-groovebox based competition (MPC) doesn't have that either, or at least it didn't last I checked.

    For now, right after the initial sketch, what works for me best is to move the project into a DAW, put Maschine as a plugin, route the outs, leaving only instruments inside and adding effects in the host. Otherwise it's quite tricky to work with. Especially if other tracks outside of Maschine come into play (say, when you're using it as a drum machine, and record guitars in the host). This unfortunately means that a part of sound design must be given up at the sketch phase. On the flipside, automation becomes a more streamlined experience.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,590 Expert

    Another aspect, whether or not is, that Reaktor does not return correct value of its latency...

    But still, it would not harm anyone, if NI adds plugin latency compensation, that may be switched on and off.

    One could sketch in Maschine including effects first without compensation and than output stems using compensation, for example....

  • kmarilleau
    kmarilleau Member Posts: 6 Newcomer
    edited March 2022

    It could solve the problem of using orchestral soundbank with the "sample start"/"tighteness" params. I really miss a feature like that, like "Media playback offset" on Reaper tracks.

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 253 Advisor

    Knowing also they are partnering with izotope would make sense to have this PDC to handle their plugins because cpu wise it is very acceptable atm. Just a mess if you want to use them in buss processing

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