On the Fence About S61 MK3 - but whole USB thing - Convince me

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cktheman
cktheman Member Posts: 2 Member
edited March 17 in Komplete Kontrol

This is my first post and I apologize if I am not following site culture protocol or seem to be posting a duplicate question - but I have not been able to get sufficient satisfaction by perusing the other comments, so here goes.

I am on the fence about purchasing an S61 - as my first controller only keyboard (long time NI Komplete Collection user). I am impressed with the poly aftertouch feature as well as the integration with Ableton and Arturia. That said, I have seen numerous issues about USB connection issues, power issues and firmware update issues (ranging from failures to bricks to 10 hour updates). To me these issues are extremely serious deal breakers and I do not have the time or the patience to fight with the hardware, when the hardware is supposed to solve all of my other production issues.

So... What I am looking for is someone with a proven setup that works. Meaning USB cables that work, external power bricks that work, hubs, C to A, etc... and the right combination thereof. As this is a permanent studio setup, I don't have any issues with using external power at the same time as being connected to the computer.

Only assumption - I have a Mac Studio M2 Max (32GB, 1TB, 38-core) - I can add anything else as needed (cables, hubs, etc...) just so its guaranteed to work.

Convince me, please. I really like what is being offered, but far from convinced it will actually work.

Comments

  • DunedinDragon
    DunedinDragon Member Posts: 514 Pro
    edited March 17
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    All I can tell you is my experience with the S88 MK3 on my Windows 10 computer using Ableton 11. Current versions on everything including NI software.

    Overall for myself everything has worked great and has been pretty much bulletproof. But starting off you will need to go through a bit of a process updating the firmware on the MK3. If you're patient and follow the directions precisely you should have no problems getting it to be recognized and working. But it is a step by step process that needs to be done both on Windows and on the Mac. This includes downloading some software utilities that will be used both now and in the future for updating the firmware on the keyboard.

    I would also urge you to make sure you have all NI pieces up to their current release levels. That would include Native Access, Komplete Kontrol and Kontakt 7. For me everything has been working perfectly other than one known anomaly with getting the sustain pedal working precisely. It's a known bug that's being worked on and should be fixed in the next update of the keyboard software. It's an easy workaround of just selecting the sustain pedal configuration on the MK3 and turning it off and on to get it to operate perfectly, so it's not a big problem.

    I did need to get a separate power supply for my S88, but you may not need to do that as the S88 pulls a lot more power than the 61 I believe and needs a dedicated power supply if your USB connection is powered. You may not need it, but if so I just got a normal power supply you would use to recharge/power a tablet.

    Because I'm running a fairly long distance from my keyboard to the USB port on my computer I got some higher quality braided cables just to be safe. In my case because I have the separate power supply I don't run that connection as a powered USB plug.

    If you're running Ableton you'll obviously need to configure the new S64 into your Link/Tempo/MIDI preferences configuration inputs, but I have both my S88 MK3 and my older S49 MK2 working fine side by side.

    That's about all I can think of. I did have to do some extra configuration stuff because I use a logitech trackball bluetooth mouse and a small bluetooth keyboard, but that was just for my personal preferences.

  • Ojustaboo
    Ojustaboo Member Posts: 206 Advisor
    edited March 17
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    Personally I think if anyone is getting the 88 note version, they should buy a power adapter at the same time. I’m sure some people are going to say their S88 works fine without one, but far too many people, myself included, needed one to get everything working OK.

    Otherwise you may find yourself twiddling your fingers for 24 hrs after your mk3 is delivered while you wait for a power supply to arrive. If you buy power supply from Amazon, can always return it if not needed.

    If I’ve understood correctly, the firmware update problem seems to be with some windows users and the way their PC’s USB C ports work, I don’t believe these firmware update failures have been happening on Mac devices?

    I’ve got a 11 year old windows 10 pro PC without USB C. I did have problems updating my firmware, but then did a full windows re-install and added a PCI-E USB C adapter card. Did both at the same time and then the firmware updated fine using the USB cable that came with my S88. I suspect it was the USB C card that fixed it rather than the windows re-install.

  • geiger167
    geiger167 Member Posts: 32 Member
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    The s61 mk3 connects without issue to the mac studio with the lead supplied in the box, and there are no firmware issues. I am running mine on the mac studio without any issues so I can at least put your mine at rest there. I'm running it in Ableton 12, with arturia Collection and komplete Ultimate 14 (and loads of other software synths) so you should be good to go software wise as well. Basically you shouldn't need anything extra if that's any help lol :)

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,215 mod
    edited March 17
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    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/141164#Comment_141164

    Actually , I am sure that a few users have had the odd problems updating firmware on Mac too (not many but still some) , some I think were solved using an USB-C to USB-A port adapter if they had an A port or else needed a powered USB-C hub and/or maybe another USB-C cable and/or PD ready PSU !

    Also , like you wrote then people really ought to get an USB-C PSU with PD delivery (20W to be on safe side) , especially true for the S-Series MK3 88 key..

    P.S. I found these examples , but if you want more then you will have to look yourself ! :

    S88 MK3 - On 2023 Mac - Can't update firmware

    KKS MK3 stuck at "Get latest update" - no firmware updater launching

    New Kontrol S MK3 bricked during firmware update

    Possibly Mac user : White Screen /Unresponsive Kontrol S Mk3 during firmware upgrade

    @cktheman , not trying to scare you or anything , just trying to inform , I am sure that if you buy a S-Series MK3 keyboard then N.I. will assist if you get any problems. Also as you can see then there are plenty of good advice from the other forum users above !

    Also , I think that the S-Series MK3 is representing the future. Native Instruments still got some slack to pick up but as you can read elsewhere in the forum from an update by Matthew_NI then Native Instruments are working hard on improving the whole S-Series MK3 ecosystem !

  • cktheman
    cktheman Member Posts: 2 Member
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    Thank you to everyone for the comments. I'm just real skittish considering the cost of the unit (I get a once a year 'fun' spend and want to use it wisely) and the reported issues. I did read the thread @PoorFellow from NI and am impressed in the sense that they appear to be working on the issues and are not ignoring the users - like a lot of companies I know. Most companies also will not publicly show a roadmap. It would definitely be a 61-key as I already have a stage piano (CP73) I really like and an MODX6+ for anything else I need in hardware.

    There are other things at play here too - as I am assuming we are on the cusp of a new SL release from Novation as well as a new Arturia Keylab release (assuming both have PaT). I am somewhat disappointed in all that blank space that could have been used for sliders or pads, and I know those will have that, despite not as much NI integration.

    Still have a couple of weeks to decide as I will take my semi-annual road trip to Sweetwater first week of April 😀

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 3,215 mod
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    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/141181#Comment_141181

    Quote : "am impressed in the sense that they appear to be working on the issues and are not ignoring the users - like a lot of companies I know."

    To me that is the 'redeeming' thing of it all, the fact that despite this have been a rather rough ride for a few/some users then N.I. appear to be determined not only to take care of what problem that there have been (for whatever reasons) but also to 'take care' of the user.

    Also it's a given that in particular the initial problems when having to diagnose and solve the USB-C connection to some computer models appear to have given some damage to N.I.'s reputation and it's quite understandable to me why you may feel 'skittish' about the whole thing even if the problems, from what Matthew_NI have been allowed to tell/share (NDAs with third party companies), have been with the chips sets and the chips set drivers rather than with the keyboards themselves..

    Also I think that you are right that there is going to be a new Arturia Keylab soon (stocks considered) and that it's probably going to be nice (a forum user a couple of months ago bought one of each, one Arturia and one N.I. S-series MK3)(User discussion back then were actually about what table to use to have both in a small space !).

    But when discussing e.g. Arturia versus N.I. Kontrol S-Series then in the end to me the discussion is about what 'ecosystem' that you want to invest in. And with respect to investing in N.I. products I also think that at this particular point time one of the main points here have to be if you feel confident that N.I. will take care of whatever problems that you might experience ecosystem wise.

    Also , in the end , then despite appearances then N.I. have a lot of users and of which a lot are quite happy !

    Quote : MORE ABOUT NATIVE INSTRUMENTS : Our hardware and software are used by more than 1.5 million creators every month

    Quote Matthew_NI, Product Team , 2024-02-19 ,

    Also, we are not talking about a lot of cases. We are talking about a small number of cases handled either here in the forum, or via our customer support channels, or both. The number of unaffected customers is exponentially larger.

    Links to more factual Matthew_NI quotes !

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/111829/#Comment_111829

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/134250/#Comment_134250

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/134252/#Comment_134252

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/134255/#Comment_134255

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