Does the NI Forum Community Culture need a change?
Comments
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If it's way out of line report it, no point in engaging with someone who is not reasonable enough to understand venting out on random users is silly. If it's just a little bit rude but not serious enough to report then ignore that person...
Quoting back and forth is exactly what escalates things when dealing with some people. I quote once, if it goes south I try to reply no further, if it goes really badly then I never quote that person ever again unless have to due to Moderation. If we pick who we talk to in real life and who to avoid the same applies online IMO.
This doesn't mean ignore people you disagree with, I disagree often with some of my best friends IRL, but if you think the person is a jerk ignore him/her, for your own sanity and the rest of us reading.
From my experience a new user that comes in already using excessive cursing and insulting others with a Karen like tantrum is not the kind of person that takes others into consideration, people who have anger issues will rage again. With all this talk of not being enough moderation I felt I couldn't let it fly, especially when someone else was banned for similar reasons recently by an Admin.
But I do appreciate your feedback, maybe a temp ban would have been a better idea, you got me thinking about it.
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That would be very nice, I'm not sure if we have that feature or if a more general reminder does much for people who don't even understand that stating their OS and versions is important when asking for help, these people tend to be not very forum/tech literate.
I had a far from perfect solution for the "Mac or Windows" issue (amongst others like providing zero info at all) on the old forum, a sticky thread explaining how to report an issue or ask for help, short details, and easy to read, this way instead of asking a ton of questions I'd just paste the link to the sticky in thread, forcing OP to learn how to do things.
On this topic I find no use for the current rank system since it's based on an illusion of knowledge: "Helper / Advisor / Expert / etc..." I'd prefer we used rank names like "Mac" or "Windows" as the 2 main ranks and users had perms to self-assign them. We could then just click the profile links and see useful info in the pop-up... But the same problem would remain, people would have to use it and at least at the time there was no way to let users have perms to self-assign specific ranks.
Example:
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haha, thanks for making me your model! 😂
good idea though, and it makes more sense,
we could still have those "guru" "expert" etc stuff as a secondary tag, maybe
but this should not be depended on the number of posts, as it is now, because it is not always "real" and it is unfair to other more experienced users, who prefer not to post much. It should depended on the number of correct answers or the level of the providing help.
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Two more things that must be fixed because sometimes are really annoying:
Forum language: People who continue to use their native language instead of English, in spite how many times we might asked them politely to do so, are not just annoying but also very arrogant. We try to help them but it is not our responsibility to translate every single comment of them. This is their responsibility. It is the least they can do after all, while we try to find some solution for them! We are not their employees. So, some kind of "official warning" must apply here. Or, just integrate a translator, next to "Flag/Insightful/Like" buttons!
People who doesn't mark their questions as "answered": Another annoying category of members. A solution might be that a pop-up window should appear, warning the member that he didn't marked an answer with a "Yes" or "No", and will restrict him from leave the page before he do so.
If we want a forum to be perform at top-peak, to be serious in the highest degree and to be auto-moderated on most of its parts (and not look like children's playground, sometimes) i consider such rules as mandatory.
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I agree with the first thing you said 100%.
I am from Serbia and I know to speak and write in English almost fluently, and even if I didn't knew English, I would just use Google Translate to translate my problem from Serbian to English language.
About the second thing when it comes to answered questions...well... I agree partially, not completely.
You know you can just click on the X on the top right corner of the window and you can just forcefully leave the page...
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we could still have those "guru" "expert" etc stuff as a secondary tag, maybe but this should not be depended on the number of posts, as it is now, because it is not always "real" and it is unfair to other more experienced users, who prefer not to post much. It should depended on the number of correct answers or the level of the providing help.
It's based on points, not post count. I thought it was posts, but it's not.
-- Mike
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Indeed, i forgot that too!
And the only way to get points are: correct answers, insightful, likes and some important badges you "conquer".
So, i assume it is ok as it is.
By the way, Advisor, Pro, Expert etc. sounds relative, but... Guru? Not really. Someone might say that is a disrespect to the spiritual teachers of India... Admins should find something more relative to music i think.
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Maybe Sage, or Grandmaster, or just Master.
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I would like to suggest that this Community does not need a culture change...NI needs a culture change. At that point things would become better here. I think much of the less than good stuff on this forum stems from frustrated loyal customers expecting NI Hardware and Software to work as intended, and when it doesnt support isnt there.. There seems to be lots of new customers frustrated as well...The attitude is almost like 'hey leave us alone, we're busy'.
I wish the nks stuff wasnt proprietary...We could have many more options and everything would be so much better in musicland. Perhaps if Midi 2 gets embraced by developers things can change. We could buy new keyboards and software that works right and isnt obsoleted even thought it is still very viable..like the mk1 keyboards. We wouldnt be stuck in the nks/kk/kontakt metaphor. NI doesnt deserve us any more.
I;ve been using NI stuff for a handful of years now..they now seem to be more sales/marketing/profit driven than doing the things they used to do well. I;ve never been a believer in growth through acquisitions...I would like it much better if they make the stuff they already have better and more desirable first, and grow from the inside out. I think the mk3's were launched way too prematurely...gotta get it out there for the holiday buying season even if the stuff doesnt work so well..
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NI certainly can be pointed at as a cause of a great deal of customer frustration on many fronts.
As an MK1, MK2 and M32 owner I could go on and on about my frustrations. I feel totally mad about KK2.x never getting any of the fixes so many of us advocated for years for.
Yes, it seems like MK3 was rushed out the doors and now there is the fallout of that for the NI support team to deal with as well.
But what is NOT NI's fault is how we choose to interact with each other. That is on us as members on the forum who make a choice to act respectfully to others or not. Being frustrated or even angry does not give any of us license to be nasty and rude, does it?
I think that is more at the heart of this discussion for most of us, although some don't seem to want to differentiate between the two perspectives. And that is inevitable I suppose.
But we can all express our opinion (even if it is only frustration or anger) and behave like adults at the same time.
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Happy New Year!
Here are my observations and opinions as a valuable new addition to NI. After all, if for not new members, how would the company and community grow? No doubt there 50% sale is going to usher in many, many more new additions.
First, being new to NI ecosystem is intimidating. The Community and its members' behavior should do a better job taking this fact into account. There are some members that are very helpful to new members, including people like me who are new to the NI ecosystem in general. That said, the Community, as a whole, is not very friendly to people who are new or not very savvy to the NI process specifically, or tech in general.
Second, NI moderators and support staff continue post that they value feedback and criticism. There are some good Discussions in which this has been the case. However, my general observation is the opposite. Most commonly, the moderators choose not address something at all or, if they do, defensively. So, I agree that there also needs to be a NI culture change.
Third, I think the anger from users that was directed at NI in October and November regarding the botched rollout of the MK3 S-series keyboards was completely justified. If you go back and look at those posts, most of them start out with sincere troubleshooting questions that quickly transformed into frustration and then anger at the lack of help from NI and condescending answers from Community members. The culture change that needs to happen to prevent a repeat of that kind of series of posts are: 1) NI needs to release products that work, and when they don't, they need to be responsive; and 2) if Community members don't have anything other than condescension to add to a thread, they shouldn't post at all. When I purchased me MK3 S-series and Komplete Standard bundle, it was a big investment for me. To find out that the product does not work out of the box for me because of power and incompatibility issues that were known by NI ahead of time but not disclosed, is, quite frankly, unforgivable (not that NI has still ever apologized for it).
Fourth, I think "loyalty" is a very bad concept when applied here. You shouldn't be loyal to any company. The company's "loyalty" to the customer only serves to make more money for them. This bogus concept of loyalty also divides this Community into "loyal, longstanding 'real' members" and the "ignorant, new, need-to-prove themselves" members. It's dumb and offensive. I've definitely read some posts by "pro" and "guru" Community members who consider themselves loyal to NI respond in a way that tries to align themselves with NI, maybe in a weird way to get served extra imaginary "loyalty points". Super annoying.
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Maybe so, or maybe not so.
But you are missing the point here. This discussion is (mostly) about members behavior on the forum.
Not to mention the fact that many of us are generally very satisfied with NI even if not always happy about some things. That's life. Support is always there, even if there is a delay. You can't expect anyone to work on Christmas day for example, just because a user is impatient and want everything here and now (a really BAD habit, at least for my generation) instead of wait few days.
What they need, is more employees. For me, everything will be fixed very quickly if they hire more personnel. The right personnel of course, people with experience.
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People don't change just because some people said they should, so this whole culture change thing is hilarious as it is ignorant of all the relevant sociological factors at play.
I honestly have more important things to worry about in my life than marking some random's response as an answer so they farm a point to work towards an imaginary title on a forum. I shouldn't need to come here to get an answer at all, after all the money I've spent, but - increasingly - it seems like the only way to get any traction with support is to come here to lobby for ticket escalation.
I don't owe forum points that to anyone. I am owed support by the company I brought these products from.
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I really dont think the behaviour here is very bad at all considering all the NI screwups. I think people have been surprisingly tolerant in general considering the ****** they;ve been presented with. It's pretty civilized here. I was in an Industry (sports) as a compensated blogger and gear reviewer, and the behaviour there was far far worse than what I;ve encountered here and on other music forums >. People are people no matter where you go, and there will always be some people making things unpleasant.
I really think that NI should do a much better job and quit being so obviously overly money grabbing about everything....They have lots of issues...they should have enough staff to deal with all these problems of THEIR creation ...People want to spend their time making music rather than forcing NI stuff to work...The NI stuff is a convoluted mess now I think,
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The one thing which is the most annoying to me is people answering their own question, when no one else answered. "Ok, I found a solution. Bye."
Hello? Maybe others with the same issue read your post and would be desperate for a solution for their problem?
Instant face plant.
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