Komplete Kontrol S series MK1 keyboards End Of Life
Comments
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To be very clear: THIS is what NI means by “we are constantly looking for ways to improve our communication with our users”: TELL you they care… to keep you quiet…not acting accordingly . More than one month later…and no answer… The narrative does not reflect…
It seems in the end there were not “quite a few questions in there i would like to answer, and points i would like to clarify”…
And people still want to say that NI is changed… well…it is…in a better or worst way? That’s the question
I start to miss the old NI, when at least they were so honest not to even PRETEND to care about users opinions/requests.
Well…maybe it is better like this: I don’t want to steal time for them to answer…it seems they need it so much to use it for working on the issues they created
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Interestingly this is basically how I feel for the most part and I would consider LIF a well experienced user, I too have also dialed way back on investing my time into this community and I think this is quite a concern for NI's community because users like us who have a wealth of information and a passion for helping others are being lost because while we are very experienced, we are not being heard (fact we are being asked what the problems are is kind of proof of this). I almost feel that if the question as to why is still being asked, that is just adding weight to the reason because myself especially in my 10,000 posts on the old and new forums over the years has been VERY vocal and straight to the point so as to make my message clear, seems it still has no weight (likely because statistically I am just 1 in a million so on paper = My opinion alone does not matter)!
Now, let's not confuse the issue of lack of "communication" with the excellent engagement the mods such as @Jeremy_NI, @Matthew_NI, @Kaiwan_NI , @Matt_NI, @Adil_NI, @Chris_NI have had, what I believe @LostInFoundation is talking about and I fully concur is the overall lack of feedback in terms of product development. Sure we now have some pieces of info fed to us, things on the horizon etc, we have Betas and such which is a damn sight more than what we had in the past which was literally no engagement at all, but what we do NOT see is any of the very valid and useful suggestions or user requested functionality ever being addressed or discussed. Take V3 of KK. That was a complete and utter kick in the face to all of us who have invested so much TRYING to improve this software over the last decade with feedback, deep testing and constant suggestions for improvement. I was VERY much looking forward to a new version that hopefully included some of the MANY suggestions made by users, to rattle off just a few suggested by many users over the years:
- Resizable Browser Window
- A Randomize function to browse presets in a random order
- Ability to browse User and Factory libraries in the same window
- Ability to host more than a single instrument
- Ability to SAVE Instrument + Effects plugins as a preset for easy recall
- Ability to automate effects
- Bring back the ability to switch OFF the Lightguide if not required like on the MK1
- Better and more flexible browsing utilising more options for tag filters
There are so many more suggestions and personally I only have a few basic features I care about (which are now even further away since KK went fully backwards in the areas many wanted to see improvements, hence my utter frustration at this point!) but those are the ones I use to see requested constantly on the old forum. Not only did we see none of these even closely implemented with V3 on launch, but in some cases even more was lost or made worse in implementation and almost all previous users expressed deep dissatisfaction about this update proving that the vision NI has is far removed from that of the current user base.
Having bugs in software that are seriously crippling causing some VST3 plugins to not even be usable, still unresolved or even information available as to the status after a year is terrible, having features in KKv2 that should have been implemented 5 years ago that never were, make anything said about "the future of KK V3" seem a bit of a joke since V2 had no future at all it seems and V3 was seemingly designed from the ground up with complete ignorance to anything users have said for 10 years!
So that is my take anyway, as positive as I want to be, it's a difficult thing to find which I have explained personally to Matthew, I just don't quite think the gravity of what I have expressed is apparent since likely statistics cloud the problems.
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I have been a NI user since 2008 and I have always had to weigh the quality of the instruments as they exist at the time against NI's tendency to abandon things and look for the new shiny, while leaving "legacy" products in a perpetual half-finished state.
The abandonment of the MK1 keyboards and the current state of Komplete Kontrol has led me to go back to using Kontakt directly and also not caring so much about NI's dedicated hardware. I've ended up "downgrading" to a much simpler MIDI keyboard that has a feel that suits my hands much better, because if I'm not going to be able to take advantage of hardware features going forward, why keep using a keyboard whose action I dislike and whose driver support is always tenuous and on the verge of breaking?
Whenever I have to contact NI support for an issue I always feel ignored or sometimes even gaslit, when I'm told that a feature that used to work but stopped working has never worked to begin with (for example, continuous sustain on the S88 mk1), and the fact that every time I try to add to the choir of people asking for certain features only to be told sarcastically "good luck, don't hold your breath" reinforces why I never come to the forums to post feature requests to begin with.
I have a great appreciation for the ways in which NI's products and offerings have gotten better over the years; the current Native Access is so much better than how things were back in the bad old days, and the fact that you're given the ability to resell extraneous licenses and how NI regularly gives such deep discounts including on upgrades that I don't mind paying $250 every few years to get the latest and greatest, still keeps me on the KOMPLETE train. But I'm definitely finding myself being less eager to recommend NI software to folks who are looking for advice to where to get started on music production.
Seeing ads for NI products every time I launch Native Access or Kontakt puts a really bad taste in my mouth, especially when the user interfaces are already so limited and cramped, and now we're getting 20% of the already-limited screen space devoted to ads?
The individuals who work at NI and represent the company are, for the most part, great people. But the company as a whole often feels like their priorities are not in line with their users.
But hey, at least they don't use iLok.
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The old saying goes
“ Love my country, but hate the people in charge”.
Welcome to the New (NI) World Order
profit, ignore, EOL, rinse, repeat
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So another 2 weeks and no follow up @Matthew_NI.
You originally suggested it on mid October and I sent you the DM as requested on October 16th.
Have you looked at it yet?
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@LostInFoundation wrote:
Since I decided not to partecipate in this forum anymore
Mate, please re-think your planned move. It would be a big loss for the whole community. I was always enjoying your great contributions. You are valued member exactly knowing what you're talking about. At the same time you were always helpful to others. But most of all, you had the guts to tell the truth whenever necessary.
@jt maher wrote:
Welcome to the New (NI) World Order
Yeah, it almost seems to me that NI hasn‘t acquired iZotope, but iZotope development team has taken over NI‘s former playground. The well-known story about the Ozone 10 "update", in the end providing less customizable functionality than its predecessor Ozone 9, is similar to the current transition between KK2 and KK3. History repeats itself, and again it's not for the good, especially for NI customers.
In these forums you have expressed many times that you're very clear on what you're saying and that nothing on this earth can change anything about that. Well, I appreciate your steadfastness in taking a certain point of view, as managers simply have to do that. But in the same way as you're taking responsibility for your own NI team, you shouldn't overlook the big responsibility you also have to keep up customer satisfaction before it has dropped down to a level where any trust in NI has been gone forever. I guess it's obvious that hundreds of pages - related to customer claims about the current KK situation - cannot be put under the carpet just like that. I'm very glad that you are always very specific about what you're saying, but I guess the community would also be very interested in receiving clear answers to all those (often repeated) customer requests to which you did *NOT* explicitly reply yet. I'm reading all postings around KK very carefully. Maybe that's not the correct thread here, but for example, I couldn't spot any clear and meaningful NI commitment about bringing back the following two features to KK which have also been highly requested:
- The return of the "Simultaneous View" for KK preset browser + current plugin window
- The return of "Sub-bank" selection, browsing and management
By far these are not any "power-user" featues or "gimmicks" nobody likes. These are essential KK functionalities which simply haven't deserved to be abandoned by NI without any further notice. After the announced KK "screen-resizing" functionality (which we are eagerly awaiting), you already have confirmed to bring back "sample drag & drop" as well as "full tag editing". At least this announcement is very commendable already; thank you for that fair move. However, the two missing features above haven't been mentioned by you in any way yet, as if they had been deliberately avoided under all circumstances. Still no one knows if these essential topics have been "considered" again by NI to make it back to the list, or not. Please note that many existing KK users like me are simply expecting more than what has currently been promised, namely that all current KK gaps will be somehow filled again. For me personally it will make a big difference in deciding if I and my corporate partners will keep supporting NI in the future, or if we have to look for an alternative immediately. After all, nobody likes to spend much money on things which get discontinued by a supplier from one day to the other; in our case it was less than one year after having invested in NI. For now, I haven't given up "being vocal" in this forum as long as all the abandoned functionality hasn't been somehow restored to KK again. If you know already that this will never happen anyway, please speak up loudly and honestly admit that fact so that everybody understands what's going on behind the curtains. I'd simply like to know where I'm currently standing, suddenly having found myself stranded in a mess which I never had expected to be created by a famous company like yours. And even in case your answer for bringing back the two mentioned features above will be a clear "no", it will also be okay with me. This will make any future decisions much easier.
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Thank you for your kind words…but…
As long as I like to help other users (we have all been in the situation where we needed someone with more experience showing us the way) and try to put what I know at the service of others, the fact that some experienced users here are practically doing NI job and even with this big help from our side NI Support is in some way so lacking is quite frustrating.
Which isn’t even the most depressing side.
What I really start not to digest anymore is the “new” NI politic: they seems to have realized that what people are saying on the internet about them will lead to negative consequences for their group (which, for them, just means “less sales”, surely not “worst reputation”…this doesn’t mean anything for them…). But, instead of acting accordingly (“let’s remedy with good work and more acceptance of what users want”) they chose the easy way (“let’s change their mind, not ours”), by starting to act (this time act not used in the meaning of “taking action”, but more like “acting as an actor would do”) as they are interested in our voices, by interacting here and there with users here on the forum (but not changing their mind or plans anyway). And even this has not been done in a proper way, imo. Instead of saying “ok, if we want to remedy to how the music community perceives us, we must have people seriously interacting with users and offering support/solutions/ and at least SERIOUSLY considering what people want” (which doesn’t mean they HAVE to implement everything…but at least put it in a better container than the “that’s not what we thought, therefore it’s not in our interest” one). And therefore investing in hiring people dedicated to this aspect, if the ones that are there don’t suffice. Not saying to some employee “take 10 min of your time here and there to write something so they’ll think we are more present”.
If you don’t want to put all of this under the prospective of “users gave us their money, they deserve a good support and more say in the matter”, at least understand that continuing on this way to do things will lead to people getting less interested in your brand. Specially if you are not anymore “The Future of Sound”, innovating with original products (the various synths that were bringing novelties to the table, concepts like Maschine hw/sw integration,… all things that the “new” NI not only seems not interested in expanding, but even abandoning…) but just another company releasing (although very good) samples packs and continuous reiterations of the same concept (Play Series instruments but just with different sounds…aka…samples packs in a new form…).
And all of this…for what? Betting all your fiches on something like NKS 2? At the verge of MIDI 2.0 coming (that will potentially give similar functionalities to any brand adopting it)? Well…this doesn’t seem like the most thoughtful direction to take to me…
And, between,… what are those wonderful novelties we have with this? Parameters divided into categories? Shifting functionalities like Play Assistant from one place to another (it’s not that we didn’t already have it…it’s just been moved from being controlled by the computer (which, btw, is way more powerful and could allow to EXPAND those functionalities further, if wanted…) to being on the keyboard itself?) One unique screen instead of 2? (which, btw, allowed to use them separated to see different things on the 2 screens…but it doesn’t matter, since now this feature has been removed…the shiny feature of the new mono screen is…a BIGGER static image in the background…wow…). Don’t misunderstand me: these are things more than useful and very welcome…but…are they REALLY so innovative?
No…what it seems to me is the steps they are taking are more focused in the direction of having the ability to tell us “now the new keyboard has a computer built inside, so we can’t give you those features with what you already bought us. You need to buy us the new things” (btw…as I already said, Play Assistant features like scale mode and chords built in the keyboard are already available in some keyboards, like the NanoKeys Studio, a 140 bucks keyboard…and I’ve never seen Korg flexing their muscles saying “it has a built in computer”…).
As I said…what it seems to me is that they are putting all their resources in making us THINK they are innovating and we need to buy them the new shiny things, instead of REALLY innovating. Even worst: they are even trying to make life harder for people not so incline to follow all the brand new novelties and spend more money on them (see the debacle of all the new updates messing things for people who are happy with the products they already have… SERIOUSLY? You don’t even get the number 1 rule of every update/introduction of features? DON’T MESS WITH WHAT PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE…specially DON’T MESS THEIR OLDER PROJECTS…).
No…what they are doing is DELIBERATELY trying to convince us the “new one” is better (or even needed), without understanding that REALLY giving us something better would be the best way to convince us.
You want an example? For all these months I’ve never been interested in updating my Kontakt to the newest version (even if I already own it), but the new update to Vocal Colors introduced some really neat functionalities that are making me questioning this, because it requires the new version of Kontakt. See? It’s THAT easy: offer something good and users will WANT to update, you won’t need to force them. Sad thing is that Vocal Colors is developed FOR NI by an external company…which maybe understands better what means “innovating” than them…
The examples about things that could be done or given (but NI doesn’t want to do) is really big. Even very easy ones. What would it cost (both in terms of time and money) to offer to users, e.g., more Chords sets (or the ability to add our owns)? More Sequences for the arpeggiator? See…it’s not the lack of introduction of new big features that is really infuriating… it’s the lack of interest in even giving small things to users the thing that is more worrying. If for big features we can think “ok…it would require a lot of investment to do that” and we can understand it (but, as said by many users, DO IT..we are more than willing to pay for having those functionalities added to our products), why they don’t want to satisfy ANY need of their users is really not understandable…and even worst: not even willing to explain why leave us in a state where someone could just think “well…they just HATE us”…
But I’m already going too long…and I didn’t even finish to list all the things that don’t convince me in the “new” NI “new” vision…
And…most sad thing…all of this is not even what made me so disillusioned about them. Worst thing comes on the last thing you told me: I always tried to tell the truth (MY truth). And more than that, I’m always ready to discuss with THEIR truth. But I’m starting to be convinced they don’t even have THEIR truth… They are more than aware that on some points they are just lying to us.
I can discuss and be convinced by someone who REALLY believes in his choices. But not by someone who is just using arguments to sell me their products and not their vision (or to hide their flaws and lack of understanding in projecting “The Future Of Music…)
I’m sorry if I’m not helping other users like me anymore…but…say thanks to NI attitude for that…😔
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@B.Minor I wrote a long answer to your comment. But it seems my opinions need to be approved now before being posted…let’s see if it will appear…
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'd be sad to see your participation go.
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We're currently focused on further resizing improvements for KK3, as well as Play Assist and Accessibility on-device for MK3.
Regarding:
- The return of the "Simultaneous View" for KK preset browser + current plugin window
- This is not planned. We're going to continue to make investments in the new browser view.
- The return of "Sub-bank" selection, browsing and management
- There is no answer or timeline for this issue yet. There are some other things I see as higher priority such as Tag Editing and Drag+Drop
1 - The return of the "Simultaneous View" for KK preset browser + current plugin window
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Thanks for sharing current status on these two items.
I was hoping for the "Simultaneous View" to have made it to an "OK" in a planning stage, but will set this aside in my brain for now... hoping that it comes up in future planning for NI.
How the other "investments" in the new browser view evolve have me intrigued, any hints you can share?
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It seems I’m entitled to my opinion, but not to post it.
And I can assure it didn’t contain any cursing or name calling.
Sadly, I was here to help and solve problems…now because how things goes, I’m just criticizing and complaining…
Anyway…let’s prove my opinion didn’t contain anything against the rules: here it is, under another form, since the other one has not been published:
What in this long critic deserved to be checked and then not published? I mean except the fact that it is a critic 😏
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LIF
No offense - but that is one long, meandering post that probably should have been broken down into more manageable chunks.
While there may be value in there - no one is going to be able to find it easily.
VP
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I can agree. Even if reading something like this takes maximum 2 min (or even only one). But I know that in nowadays world, the span attention doesn’t go over 15 seconds.
Therefore, I thought it was perfect like this: being it a critics post, people seeing the wall of words won’t even start to read it if they are not interested.
It’s almost like an entry test: if someone doesn’t start to read it because he thinks 2 min for reading something like this is too much time, probably he is someone that would not be interested in it.
So, by putting it out like this, I spared their time. They can thank me later 😉
😂😂😂
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It seems I’m entitled to my opinion, but not to post it.
You know I like you so I'll be blunt: May I humbly remind you the last time you were quick to reach conclusions you ended up putting blame where it didn't belong? Wasn't the post made today? Chill out...
A gigantic post like that gets caught by the spam bot due to size, nothing to do with opinion, I approved it. If I didn't have work all day today it would be approved 1 hour after you posted it. Next time just wait or DM me if your post gets stuck for more than 1 day or if you're in a hurry, I'll fix it for you or anyone else no problem. Avoid conspiracy theories pls, there's been too much drama lately already.
An overzealous spam bot is an annoying necessity, unfortunately.
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