Komplete Kontrol S series MK1 keyboards End Of Life
Comments
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I guess, we will see soon if Maschine keeps on supporting MK1 or not.
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I see. Well, maybe NI find a solution for that. I don't know what that v2.9.5 update is about, and whether or not it addresses this (I guess not).
Tough to reconcile, if you want to move forward.
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I believe 2.9.5 is a onetime bug fix cleanup that bubbled up after comments in this thread.
VP
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I would add just a couple of things
Yes…companies exist to make money…but…while making them, they have obligations towards users.
Otherwise…the fastest way to make money is if I kill somebody and take all its belongings. But somebody thought to make a law against this. As somebody thought to make laws to protect consumers.
And otherwise companies like…let’s say Chevrolet…could sell you a car and rightfully tell you you have 3 years warranty. But, not happy of that, they will even call it EOL and remove the keys from you. “But don’t worry. The car itself is still perfectly working. Just you can’t turn it on. But if you put 2 horses in front of it, you can still use it to go around. Don’t be just a complainer cause when we sold it to you we told you it was working on an engine!”
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"Yes…companies exist to make money…but…while making them, they have obligations towards users."
This is your speculative opinion only.
In a general sense - when buying anything - from a stick of gum to a private jet - there is no obligation - implied, promised or provided. Note: Warranty does not equal obligation.
Of course - there are exceptions and some companies do actually care - but it's on them to decide if being "obligated" to me is in their best interests.
It is certainly not a right, a privilege or an expectation that I am automatically entitled to just because I gave a company money for their widget.
Would be nice if it were true - but that is simply not reality.
VP
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Well you d have to agree that with software it is a completely different thing. This HW relies on software to be more than a paperweight cheap ok midi controller.
When it can t have the functionality it was purchased for, it’s normal that the client who thought he would get more than 5 years out of it (as physically the keys plus still be fine for another 10y probably) gets upset and may feel hard done by.
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This discussion is running around in circles. What many of you fail to realize is that there is no obligation whatsoever from a vendor to support you with updates for a life time. Heck, not even one update other than bugfixes would be a necessity.
Whenever I'm buying something, I'm buying it based on the capabilities it has at that very point in time. The world of free software and services on the internet may have spoiled us, but it won't take away from the fact that business need to create income to stay alive.
Luckily, there is a choice. Next to investing in the company and buying a new device, you may fix your setup and just make music. Don't install any updates. It will work until the hardware rots. Sorry to be blunt, but it's as simple as that.
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Pretty much everything you've written there is completely wrong from a legal perspective, it's fantasy. Companies certainly do have obligations to meet, one being that the goods or services they sell are fit for the purpose they claim they are. If that don't meet that in my country you are entitled to a full refund. You really shouldn't be giving bad legal advice.
Where do you live? It sounds like an anti-consumer hellscape.
A warranty is a legal contract binding the company to an obligation backed by force of law. In Australia we have a thing called Australian Consumer Law that enshrines minimum obligations that companies selling here must meet or face serious fines far beyond most warranties companies offer - they are also obliged to meet these as a condition of doing business here. Selling online does not exempt you from this legislation either.
A perfect example of this is Apple who continually try to exercise their US contract law warranties in Australia and keep getting massive fines from the government as these warranties breach minimum Australian legal standards and are made to honour longer and more generous to the consumers warranties as determined by the ACCC (our government consumer protection body). The same has happened to multiple, predominantly US based, software companies and they always lose. NI is certainly not immune to this.
A EULA by contrast is not worth the paper it's not written on as it's an attempt to alter a contract after the purchase has happened which would void the sale contract amongst other reasons.
Companies are also required by their documents of incorporation to act ethically and honestly. This is also something with a force of law behind it and the company and its directors can suffer punishment for breaking this.
In short, it is a consumer right, it is a company obligation.
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Except your starting poition is false. It's not a lifetime, it's a reasonable time.
And see my point above about consumer laws in other countries, what you think of as being true isn't.
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Mickey
Sums it up perfectly.
All these guys waving EULAs and contracts and warranties do not understand how the world works. No company is going to coddle you, worry about you or be obligated to you.
"Ethically and honestly"? Really?
Now - if any user (especially when software is in play) really wants to go to court and spend even more of their money to make a point - have at it.
But you nailed it - "I'm buying it based on the capabilities it has at that very point in time"
I have zero expectations from any company and vote with my wallet only.
If they do anything positive for me - I consider it a bonus.
VP
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"Well, you'd have to agree that with software it is a completely different thing. This HW relies on software to be more than a paperweight cheap ok midi controller."
I completely agree with you - but Kubrak wanted some 'real world" examples of how EOL works with other things in my world - so I gave him some.
That Oppo example was specifically painful as that company was awesome at supporting its hardware (circa 2010-2014-ish) - but then one day - someone over there decided that Oppo was NOT "obligated" to us in any way and shut down all support for all hardware and then shut down the company.
No hellos, no goodbyes and no support of any kind - ever. "Hope my player lasts" is what I heard bouncing around in my head. And the price for my BDP-105 was easily equal to a MK1 keyboard back in the day.
When I compare that EOL scene with what is going on in here - this is like Disneyland.
VP
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Well, I voted with my wallet during the 2 years wait for M1 compatibility and I’ve sold my KK61 Mk2 back then and uninstalled everything except Kontakt and Maschine software. I will never buy a controller from NI, unless ALL functionality is done in hardware. I like performance functions and full midi programmability but I don’t need patch browsing on a keyboard, my monitor is 60cm from my nose, I can browse patches there (or use KK for on-screen NKS compatibility if I’m in masochistic mood on a particular day).
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My speculative opinion only???
There are LAWS about it…
Are you unaware of that or you just want to constantly say everybody else is wrong?
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Unless one is a lawyer or has lots of money, executing those rights is possible on paper only. Unless you’d gather enough people for class action claim.
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