Komplete Kontrol S series MK1 keyboards End Of Life
Comments
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"Nobody is paying you to be a corporate booster, hold companies to account as I said earlier rather than being their apologist."
Booster? Me? Not a chance.
There are many things that I dislike about NI and other vendors. I simply choose not to whine about it like an entitled child.
And I totally get that you (and many others) do not agree with the MK1 EOL plan - but who nominated you to "hold the company to account"?
It's done. You do not need to like it (or accept it) but going ballistic every third post isn't going to change their mind.
VP
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If more folks would realize that this is how the world works (and has always worked) maybe we could avoid some of these 20 pages long threads with users bashing NI, users bashing users, Users bashing whatever is bugging them at this moment etc.
I still think 10 years from a keyboard is a rare thing at any time AND there is a KK 2.9.5 coming as well.
Well, this is maybe how the world works. But for sure it is not the way, how the world has worked, 30 and more years ago....
It is less than 8 years since release of S88 and just 5.5 since end of sale by NI. And even less since end of sale by local distributors....
And S88 is not a cheap plastic toy.... NI should at least enable possibility to use seamlessly MK1 with KK2 and the rest of NI HW with KK3 on one computer. If NI does not want/intend to include MK1 in KK2.
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Or... maybe... he just has a different opinion than you. Just a thought. Maybe.
Nobody is paying you to be a rrrebel either, by the way.
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Nothing ballistic about it - you seem to have a habit of telling other what they should accept and expect and I just disagree with it and I'm pointing out the actual downside of comments like yours. You have literally made excuses for NI that they don't deservce and won't reward you for. That's reality, not negativity.
Those of us here trying to hold them to account don't need others diminishing our points, NI can respond, you doing it just adds noise to the signal. You probably don't even realise that you are doing that.
How about admitting that it was significantly less than ten years of life for the S88 Mk1? Address my point, not my tone as you perceived it?
As I've pointed out earlier, people fighting against companies when they behave badly is the only reason we have any consumer rights at all. Nobody just gave them to us out of the kindness of their hearts. That simply never happens.
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30+ years ago - the entire DAW marketplace as we know it did not even exist. But hey - I can point you to piles of gear from 1993 (and earlier) that were once the darlings of their specific use case and are now on the scrap heap.
How many things have I bought and discarded (studio wise) since I started getting into this in 1984. Countless. One minute it's in and the next it's out. Did I complain to Roland? To Tascam? To AKAI etc?
I am in the same boat here with my S61MKII - KKv3 is a total disaster at this stage - so whether I have a MKI or MKII makes zero difference. I am "stuck" with KK 2.9.4 just like you and I am good with that. KK 2.9.5 was a pleasant surprise too.
I understand your use case is unique - I do not know anyone who owns/uses all three Mark Series controllers let alone tries to use them on a single computer.
But I also cannot see NI changing their minds on this either.
VP
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You're giving equal weight to opinion and facts.
Not helpful.
You're also telling people who have suffered a loss that they shouldn't feel the way they do because you, who hasn't suffered that loss, are fine with the situation.
Also not helpful and completely lacking in empathy.
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"You're also telling people who have suffered a loss that they shouldn't feel the way they do because you, who hasn't suffered that loss, are fine with the situation."
Now you have suffered a loss? Like you got zero value from your K88MK1 purchase for the years you already owned it? Wow.
As I mentioned to Kubrak:
I am in the same boat here with my S61MKII - KKv3 is a total disaster at this stage - so whether I have a MKI or MKII makes zero difference. I am "stuck" with KK 2.9.4 just like you and I am good with that. KK 2.9.5 was a pleasant surprise too.
So - let's recap - I have a NI board (that also cannot be used with KK3 at this time or maybe never depending on where NI goes with that mess) and I too cannot move forward.
And I too will need to continue to make the best of it with KK 2.94/KK 2.95 (when it arrives)
Funny how this does not represent a loss to me.
VP
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Yes, I have suffered a loss, a loss of opportunity that was not communicated prior to this unannounced change by NI. That's a real and measurable loss. You need to work on empathy as I suggested.
BTW look at the latest updates to NI products - they're being updated to require NKS2 (the changelog for Glaze) and Kontakt 7.6 (which currently kernel panics my Mac so I can't use that or any package that requires it - NI support has not been able to diagnose the reason as yet).
The support we receive isn't free - it's included in the price of the software and hardware we purchase. We've paid in advance for it and when it's not provided that is a literal loss on our investment.
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I understand your use case is unique - I do not know anyone who owns/uses all three Mark Series controllers let alone tries to use them on a single computer.
Well, that is misunderstanding.... I do not have MK2 or MK3, just MK1. But I have Maschine. Studio, Jam, MK3.... And it will not be possible to use them reasonably together with KK MK1.... That is the problem.
KK3 is not possibly usable, now. But it will be in few months. But, I do care more about destiny of Maschine. It is probable, it will have similar fate as KK....
It would be totally OK stay on KK2 with my KK MK1 forever, but I want to use KK3 with my Maschine controllers. When KK3 will become workable....
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30+ years ago - the entire DAW marketplace as we know it did not even exist. But hey - I can point you to piles of gear from 1993 (and earlier) that were once the darlings of their specific use case and are now on the scrap heap.
Well, you were refering world, not DAW. But still..
I still have and use Eventide Eclipse (2001), Eventide H8000 (2005). People still use Lexicons. PCM 70 (1985), PCM 80 (1995), MPX1 (1996).
Beside that, I still use china plates and cups from thirties (almost 90 years old), use clock from about the same time, and meat mincer from that period still in use. And the age of my working desk might be close to 100 years as when I bought it 40 years ago it had been already very old....
I still use Levi's throusers produced about 30 years ago. Still in good shape, just colour is washed down. What is interesting is that exactly the same throusers bought few years later desintegrated in few years and still the same model bought later has desintegrated even sooner....
So, I remember times, when goods were produced to last eternity, not produced to be "consumed" and thrown away....
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You will need to help me understand the "loss of opportunity" here as I am in the same boat as you and I do not see any loss of opportunity. Everything is working and I am creating. Nuff said.
Need to clarify your "NI updates" comment - the Kontakt libraries (like Glaze etc) have been recently updated to "support" NKS2 - they do not require it. These updates DO require Kontakt 7.6.0+ but KK 2.94/KK2.95 fully supports this so you should have no issues. That Mac specific kernal issue will be worked out in short order as well - so let's not dwell on that too much.
The only elephant in the room is that MK1 users can't have a new version of Komplete Kontrol and that is it.
But let's be honest - KK3 is a disaster right now - coupled with the fact that it may not actually be truly useful until a year from now (or more) is really no reason for anyone to be overly concerned about their MK1 or feel shortchanged. KK 2.9.4/2/9/5 is light years better than KK3 right now anyway so who needs the hassle?
VP
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"Well, that is misunderstanding.... I do not have MK2 or MK3, just MK1. But I have Maschine. Studio, Jam, MK3.... And it will not be possible to use them reasonably together with KK MK1.... That is the problem"
Sorry about the confusion. You listed so many different products it was hard to keep track.
"So, I remember times, when goods were produced to last eternity, not produced to be "consumed" and thrown away"
Well - my bad for saying "the world" - but let's look at real EOL examples from my time from a "world view."
- In 1986 I purchased a brand-new Chevy Chevette and it was awesome, but I was told when driving it off the lot that I had a 3-year warranty and after that I am on my own. Essentially EOL in 36 months. Sold it and bought something else. Did I rant on my Chevy dealer?
- In 2010 - I purchase my beloved Oppo BDP-83 BluRay player - the finest of its kind at the time. Then in 2012 Oppo introduced the BDP-103 and discontinued ALL firmware updates and offered 6 months of actual support access for the BDP-83. Company went out of business 4 years later and all products were EOL and I was SOL. Did I complain to Oppo? (Still use my BDP-103 today)
- When we decided to renovate our basement in 2013 - my wife decided she didn't want all my cool amps and speakers and cables and stuff in our new media room. So it was either no reno OR to sell off stuff to rebuy components that are more "pleasing" to the eye. Essentially had to EOL a huge pile of perfectly serviceable equipment in order to prevent a domestic push pull until the end of time.
And so on and so on.
Look I get it. At the end of the day - a pair of jeans, a 1985 Lexicon and your MKI are all the same - serviceable, usable objects that have provided (and will continue to provide) lasting value.
Interestingly - two of these you seem totally fine with because they seem to have no baggage or cause you concern. Jeans are jeans but maybe that MPX1 could have used a firmware update back in 1996 and maybe the company said they are no longer supporting that unit. Did you rant on them for not providing this way back when? Or did you just say - the unit is solid - I am going to carry on.
The MK1 stuff is no different. You either roll with what you have (and obviously keep it serviceable) or you move it out and get on with something else.
When it all comes down to it - be it jeans or plates or cars or keyboards - nothing lasts forever, there is always something better out there and it's up to you to decide where the value is.
VP
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I definitely didn't buy my S88 MK88 to get a MIDI keyboard.
If I had known that Native Instruments sometimes only supports their hardware for 5 years after it's sold I would have bought a MODX or similar keyboard for a little bit more money. That's hardware that I can expect to, if maintained (hardware), last 10 to 20 years or longer much longer. Native Instruments hardware always seemed well built for me. So the idea that a bit of longterm support either through the release of developer documentation and open source code or that they maintain a minimum compatibility through NI software can't be delivered isn't acceptable to me.
One of the reasons why I'm spending more time in Bitwig is because it works so well with hardware from a variety of manufactures. My Akai MPK Mini MK3 was instantly recognized and drum pads mapped properly when I loaded in the respective Bitwig kits. There is good support for my Akai MPC Live 2 and Maschine MK3.
If I can get similar or better long term support for Native Instruments hardware from a DAW like Bitwig why would I be interested in upgrading my Native Instruments Komplete Collectors edition every year as I have?
I understand that new features, and new protocols, can't be delivered because of hardware limitations like no polyphonic aftertouch. But ending all support for hardware that they made just hurts trust in their brand.
This will cost NI business in the long run.
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OK, what I wanted to express is, that in past the products were produced to last. They were built to last and to be servicable.
Now, the most of products are produced to be usable for few months to few years. And customers accept that. As most do not remember times when it has beed different.
The things have changed 20-40 years ago. Depending on country and type of product.
The decline of quality, IMHO in many cases intentional, is alarming and clearly visible.
I gave an example of the Levis' jeans. The same model bought 30+ years ago is still quite fine. Those bought later (exactly the same model and size) had less and less durability. Not slightly less, they have lasted tenth of time of those produced in old time standards..... I cannot proove it, but I suspect Levis that they do something on purpose to the material to make it last just few years.... Some kind of acid or whatewer to make threads weaker.... They want to sell, sell, sell. Repeatedly, not to make lasting products....
NI tries to do the same. They could support MK1 in their SW. Yes it would cost something and would not bring revenues. At least not in short run. But maybe it would bring revenues in long run.
As well as I will not buy Levis any more, as I do not accept their game, I will not buy their products, if they will not resolve things in some way. I have spent many, many thousands on NI HW and SW. But I do not have problems to spend it at some other place in future.
KK S88 MK1 has been replaced by KK S88 MK2 five years ago. It is way too soon to drop support for 1000+ EUR gear.
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No, I'm saying that a lot of people argue that they can throw away their keyboard, while their loss is merely that they can't use the latest version of the Komplete Kontrol plugin. And, that's a fact, and not something out of this world, and unempathetic about people who "suffer a loss". Nobody lost his mum or his dad.
And, yes, it is very helpful to name facts. Unlike that whole nonsense of trashing your keyboard and "suffering a loss" and what not. Yes, it may be disappointing for mk1 users that they can't use the latest version of Komplete Kontrol, but, no one has to throw away his keyboard. Face it. See the facts. Stop being so emotional and irrational.
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