play Kontakt Factory Library 2 through wind controller Emeo

Papigraz
Papigraz Member Posts: 12 Member
Hi, I'm using kontakt 7 with an Emeo wind controller. When I play the sounds from Factory Library 2 the first note plays at half volume, then from the second note onwards the volume becomes regular (this happens with every attack you play).
The problem does not exist when I play VG instruments that offer the possibility to choose the midi interface, keyboard or breath controller.
I looked for an option that allows you to configure the Factory Library for wind controllers but I couldn't find it. 
Someone have suggestions? 
Thanks and happy new year.
Graziano

Best Answers

  • Milos
    Milos Member Posts: 1,833 Pro
    Answer ✓

    Hmm...

    Do you use the DAW for playing Kontakt?

    If you do, maybe this can help:

    Record anything with your device, then use the piano roll to select a certain note that you want to edit, you can experiment with its velocity, duration and release.

    Let me know if it helped, sir.

  • Papigraz
    Papigraz Member Posts: 12 Member
    Answer ✓

    ciao, rispondo contemporaneamente a Strephen e Uwe. L'Emeo è collegato al computer (Windows 11) tramite USB e si riconosce con il nome Arduino, non ho fatto altro. Kontakt 7 Sto iniziando a usarlo ora, ho guardato alcuni tutorial ma non ne so ancora molto e non so nulla del protocollo midi. Uwe, ho fatto quello che suggerisci, allego lo screenshot. Grazie per l'aiuto. Ciao.Graziano

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Answers

  • Milos
    Milos Member Posts: 1,833 Pro
    Answer ✓

    Hmm...

    Do you use the DAW for playing Kontakt?

    If you do, maybe this can help:

    Record anything with your device, then use the piano roll to select a certain note that you want to edit, you can experiment with its velocity, duration and release.

    Let me know if it helped, sir.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,896 mod

    Hello,

    unfortunately the manual of this device is not helpful, there is no information about, what midi Information this controller can put out and how it´s made internally. Normal midi instruments need note information + velocity at the same time, i guess here is the problem. And different blow controllers handle all that stuff differently. So like @Milos said, record some midi and then show it to us, you might need some midi transformer in order to be able to play instruments better, that are not made for a controller like that.

  • Papigraz
    Papigraz Member Posts: 12 Member
    Hi Milos, I'm new to VSTs. I just bought both Emeo, Kontakt and Library. The Emeo has no sounds, it's just a sax-like midi interface and I would like to use it to produce different sounds, using Kontact in standalone. I don't know how to apply your suggestion. If Magix Audio Studio is a DAW I use to record from a microphone, I don't know how to use Midi Studio yet. Anyway, thanks for the reply
    


  • Papigraz
    Papigraz Member Posts: 12 Member
    Hi Uwe, I'm not really able to do what you suggest, I'm a beginner who is trying to get closer to the world of Vst and I have to learn everything. For the moment what I understand is that when the Vst offers the choice between keyboard and wind controller the sound is immediate and perfect.
    

    I hope to improve my knowledge but at this Moment …

    in any case thanks for the answer, bye.

    graziano

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 252 Advisor
    edited January 5

    (Please do your posting in normal text - the "code" format goes off the edge of the screen and is difficult to read)

    The Emeo as you know is designed to be used as a practice instrument and is not well suited to making music tracks or playing live. Kontakt instruments will usually have no special "wind controller" settings, but with a few tweaks most will give you excellent sounds for your beautiful device. I have commented on this elsewhere

    As uwe says it doesn't seem possible to get hold of details of the basic workings of the Emeo, but one assumes it sends volume messages via cc#2 and its notes have some fixed velocity. It's not immediately apparent what could be causing the strange behaviour you describe, but it would be easier to help if you could tell us exactly how you have linked the device to the Kontakt instrument, and what settings you have made. It would also help to know how familar you are with Kontakt's workings and with the MIDI protocol.

    * * * * *(I hadn't seen your latest post - give me the details and we'll get you set up)

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,896 mod

    Ok then it might get a bit difficult, but we will come through somehow. Also important to know is, what os do you use, mac os or windows.

    https://support.airmusictech.com/en/support/solutions/articles/69000812937-using-a-midi-monitor-to-test-a-midi-device

    Can you do this, press just some "keys" only then just blow and maybe then all together, so we then know what action gives out what midi information. You can use sniping tool on windows for example to make a picture of your screen.

  • Papigraz
    Papigraz Member Posts: 12 Member
    Answer ✓

    ciao, rispondo contemporaneamente a Strephen e Uwe. L'Emeo è collegato al computer (Windows 11) tramite USB e si riconosce con il nome Arduino, non ho fatto altro. Kontakt 7 Sto iniziando a usarlo ora, ho guardato alcuni tutorial ma non ne so ancora molto e non so nulla del protocollo midi. Uwe, ho fatto quello che suggerisci, allego lo screenshot. Grazie per l'aiuto. Ciao.Graziano

  • Papigraz
    Papigraz Member Posts: 12 Member

    Sorry, that the english version


    hello, I reply to Strephen and Uwe at the same time. The Emeo is connected to the computer (Windows 11) via USB and is recognized by the name Arduino, I didn't do anything else. Kontakt 7 I'm starting to use it now, I've watched some tutorials but I still don't know much about it and I don't know anything about the midi protocol. Uwe, I've done what you suggest, I'm attaching the screenshot. Thanks for the help. Ciao.Graziano

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 692 Pro

    What instrument specifically were you playing from the Factory Library 2? I have an AE-20, I know it's not the same as the EMEO (which looks very nice btw) but I could give it a shot and see. So far I'm only used it with instruments from Audio Modeling.

    To clarify your problem, you're saying that no matter how hard or soft you blow, the first note is always played at the same volume/intensity? But notes following the first play as expected? Is that correct?

    If you're on a Mac you can try opening MIDI Monitor and seeing what MIDI information is passed from the EMEO. It will show you the exact messages passed, ie note on, off, aftertouch, velocity etc... If it's always passing 50% velocity that seems like it might be an issue? However it could very well be the instrument itself and that it just doesn't have the ability to adjust the dynamics mid-note, ie something like a bell, or a drum.

  • Papigraz
    Papigraz Member Posts: 12 Member
    hi, the problem occurs with any instrument in Factory Library 2, 
    both wind instruments and keyboards. 
    The first note of each phrase plays at a third of the volume, 
    from the second everything is fine. It's not a dynamics problem, 
    I play at the same volume. The problem occurs on the computer that has Windows 11, 
    I still have to try on the Mac, I will do it soon.
    Thanks, ciao.
    Graziano 
    
  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 252 Advisor
    edited January 6

    If you're going to use this expensive equipment and software, you would do well to bone up on the MIDI profocol which isn't rocket science. For the moment, you should know that your device sends 2 different messages: note messages (when you press/release the keys) and a stream of volume messages (when you blow). A wind controller's volume messages are different from the usual, so you will have to teach the Kontakt instrument to respond to them.

    1. Connect your device to Kontakt via MIDI and organise the audio output (File>Options). Looks as though you have already done this, though you will probably get audio latency which will require processing with an ASIO interface. Later!
    2. Teach Kontakt to respond to your breath messages. You should always use the volume slider to the right of the instrument header. R click on this and it will say "MIDI Learn". Click on that and then blow your instrument and the slider will start to move with your blowing. (If you R click again it'll say "Remove. . ." and the cc number your device has provided - probably #2)

    That should get you started. You'll need to add some ambience (best done with an auxiliary output using convolution)

    connect to an ASIO audio output to get rid of latency (download ASIO4ALL if you don't have a posh audio card)

    remove unwanted controls from the Kontakt instrument (R click)

    save the edited instrument under a different filename

    get yourself a decent saxophone instrument.

    More if necessary later

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 692 Pro

    I just tried with my AE-20, none of the instruments sound like what I would expect. I did a test with the Baritone Saxophone (part of Band in Factory Library 2) and while I could get an initial tone to sound louder, I had to tongue the mouthpiece and blow much harder than normal.

    IMO since these instruments don't appear to be designed to be controlled by EWI's. I tried several times to get a very quiet note and it was not possible. Perhaps by tweaking some of the curves it would be possible, but I'm not sure.

    I'm not sure what VG instruments are? Side note, have you tried Respiro? I was wondering if it's any good, they're talking about it in this review of the EMEO.

    You should look at some of the demos for instruments from Audio Modeling or Sample Modeling if you really want something that is expressive.

    Lastly you mentioned "The problem does not exist when I play VG instruments that offer the possibility to choose the midi interface, keyboard or breath controller." I'm not sure what you mean there. You can most definitely select a specific MIDI input device in Kontakt, but if you mean there's no presets for keyboard, EWI etc... then yes you are correct.

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 252 Advisor

    IMO since these instruments don't appear to be designed to be controlled by EWI's. I tried several times to get a very quiet note and it was not possible. Perhaps by tweaking some of the curves it would be possible, but I'm not sure.

    They're not. But they can easily be adapted. Where you're going wrong is hitching your breath controller to the wrong volume controller. You must use it to control either the volume slider in the instrument header or volume knob in the Amplifier module. These have a logarithmic response curve which allows you to play as quietly as you want. (Volume modulation, which is usually the method used by instrument authors, has a linear response curve which is quite unsuitable for breath controllers, as you have found.)

    Don't discourage the OP from using Kontakt, which can provide a much wider and better choice of instrument for his breath controller. I've been doing it for 20 years with my WX5.

    I also would like to know what VG instruments are.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 692 Pro

    That's good to know, I'd definitely like to checkout remapping input as you suggested.

    I'm not trying to sway anyone from using NI solutions. The OP mentioned they were new to VST's, so I was simply letting the op know that there's instruments out there that are specifically designed (ie preset configurations) for EWI's that work out of the box.

  • stephen24
    stephen24 Member Posts: 252 Advisor

    ?a suitable demo - done entirely with Kontakt using a wind controller (not the piano!)

    Yeah your suggestions are good - I have looked at Audio Modelling and their stuff is excellent, But Kontakt instruments have come on so much, especially now with this amazing legato scripting - that it's at least worth a look. (And he's bought it!)

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