Using Komplete Kontrol causing my DAW (Reaper) to freeze every 5 minutes
Answers
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@BIF For other issues, please open a new thread.
This thread is intended for a critical bug in Komplete Kontrol which crashes REAPER. Without a bugfix by NI development team, both Mk3 keyboard and Komplete Kontrol are useless. We as customers cannot do anything as this is totally in the hands of NI with 7 months of zero progress and no vision when it will be fixed.
@Jeremy_NI With the amount of money I spent on NI hardware and software the past years, I decided to put all investments in Native Instruments on hold until this bug is fixed. I want to see a solution or at least a plan so I can start using the keyboard as it was designed.
I already put my Mk1 into the garbage bin as a result of dropped support by NI and now I've a second Mk3 which does not work. NI is building up a huge amount of pain which is not endless.
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Mate, I have serious bugs reported back in 2022 that were never fixed, so I wouldn't hold your breath for a fix any time this big bang cycle…
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Well that's a fine "how do you do". 😯
My response was to let you know how busy the team currently is and why expecting priority changes this late into the MIDI Templates dev cycle probably wouldn't get you urgent response.
And I even acknowledged and complimented you on your willingness to provide excellent documentation of the problem.
And then you snap at me? Really?
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@BIF I appreciate your time to help out. As you're listed as non NI employee, I cannot estimate the relation between your MIDI Templates issue, this KK bug and the allocation of the NI development team. This is the reason I'd like to stick to this bug topic only and really need official clarification from NI support / management how to proceed to find a solution by fixing KK.
Let me explain why there is now also a financial damage involved with consequences:
NI decided to drop Mk1 support silently. No email announcement, no warning in Native Access, nothing. I installed regular updates and my S88 Mk1 keyboard stopped working completely. Finally I discovered via support that there is no way forward to get the Mk1 working. I was not able to sell this 1000Euro keyboard as nobody wants to buy a second-hand keyboard which is no longer supported by NI. First waste of 1000 Euro's.
I decided to purchase a new 1200 Euro S88 Mk3 (+ additional cost of missing required accessories) to work with my existing Komplete software bundles/plugins (also over 2000 Euro in total cost).
The Mk3 generated the famous general error during the firmware update and did not work out of the box. I discussed with the webshop to return under RMA. Finally, got it up and running and encountered immediately the REAPER crash when inserting Komplete Kontrol on a track, move some buttons and loose window focus. I spent time of creating a clearly reproducible bug report in this thread without further follow-up by NI.
Look at the screen capture REAPER crash below which is reproducible on any Windows system:
Answer from Zendesk email support they point back to this thread without any help. The only official NI response I received on this forum so far:
Thanks for the detailed repro. It turns out the bug was already reported and filed under this reference: KBDSW-7859. It's been forwarded to the developers.
In other words: NI can fix this tomorrow, but there is a very high risk that NI will never fix this critical bug and KK cannot be used at all. Then I've wasted all my NI investments as described above in past years.
With the defective Komplete Kontrol, Native Instruments delivered me a faulty product which does not work as advertised.
I am not able to use Komplete Kontrol + Mk3 Keyboard until this bug has been fixed by NI. Why are new NI products released at high speed and this KK bug does not get any attention?
NI violates the new European 2022 laws as:
- EU manufactures must support hardware and software products. NI did not come up with a plan to get both Mk3 and KK working so far. This problem is already known for >7 months. We as customers expect an estimation when this problem will be fixed. The EU warranty period is applicable for both hardware and software, so there is an obligation to NI to provide an answer and support their products.
- EU manufactures must reduce the 2.2 billion tonnes of waste each year by offering repair or recycling. Mk1 keyboard should be put in the recycle bin instead of supporting in KK? Because it is all about increasing sales? It results in many frustrated customers instead.
More information on
The aim of the revised directive is to set uniform rules for Eu countries, ensure proper functioning of the digital and circular economy and help victims of defective products get fairer compensation.
I am a 10+ years NI customer and also located in EU.
A coupon for another plugin is not a fair compensation as the total damage is thousands of Euros with a Mk3 keyboard + software which cannot be used. Does it ring a bell why I scream for help now?
@Jeremy_NI Please go to your management and tell them that I do not accept the answer without a plan to get Komplete Kontrol working in a reasonable time frame as I'm not able to use the product at all.
I expect an answer with a plan how and when this will be resolved before Friday 28 June 2024 which gives you another 2 weeks of time. If not, I take further steps. I look forward to your answer.
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I'll forward your comments but I have to point one thing:
You can still use the MK1 keyboard with Komplete Kontrol 2.9.6, as explained in lengths in this forum and also here: Notes on Ending Software Support for Komplete Kontrol S-Series MK1 Keyboards
@Matthew_NI Any idea on where it's at with this bug? KBDSW-7859
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Whilst it's unfortunate that you're experiencing this issue, which other users of Reaper do not appear to be seeing, I have to reiterate that Reaper is not officially supported.
We have not sold a defective product - we've sold a product that works well in the officially supported environments we're explicit about online:
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Just to chime in here.
"I have to reiterate that Reaper is not officially supported"
Reaper is a DAW, you have supplied a VST3, which should work in all DAWs!! period. Whether or not transport functions are not supported or not, is irrelevant. It should work regardless, without crashing.
But I have just tested Kontakt 7 in reaper and I do not get any crashes, copying what @Erwinew was doing in his .gif.
@Erwinew are you running MSI afterburner: specifically, Riva Tuner, this will cause Native instruments vst's to crash if you do not disable the OSD. Copy below for all Native instrument's programs.
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@rdalcroft Thanks for your reply which is highly appreciated. I'm sorry, I'm not using MSI afterburner.
When Native Instruments plugins are developed according to the VST3 specification, then I agree with you: It should work in any DAW and don't see a reason why a specific DAW should be excluded.
I use REAPER VST2/3 plugins for 15 years now and don't see any problems with any other Native Instruments VST3 plugins. Kontakt 7 initial releases were unstable as well and crashed, but NI fixed stability issues in the mean time (see release notes). Komplete Kontrol is the only one which crashed REAPER and I requested help to get this problem resolved. Then I can start using the Mk3 + other NI software I purchased the past 10 years.
You can still use the MK1 keyboard with Komplete Kontrol 2.9.6, as explained in lengths in this forum and also here:
What you forgot to mention is that new plugins require Kontakt 7 which is not supported by Komplete Kontrol 2.9.6. For this reason, new NI plugins cannot be used and there is no way forward to use Mk1 as Komplete Kontrol 2.9.6 is no longer maintained. As a result, I had to purchase a new keyboard!
"I have to reiterate that Reaper is not officially supported"
This message comes out of the blue and is completely new to me. It is the second deep shock to me in 6 months: First the silent Mk1 deprecation, now this one without any explanation after I purchased the S88 Mk3!
When I bought the S88 Mk3 in February 2024, the S series keyboard product specifications did not explicitly mentioned which DAW's are enforced by NI. Again, I used REAPER for many years. There was no possibility for me to know this upfront and now I'm ended in a giant problem without any professional help from NI so far:
- February 2024 email support: No answer, no ticket number created.
- 2 June 2024 email support #4310699 Sebastien: Dead conversation without providing any help. Last message 13 June 2024.
- This tread: Reported since November 2023. Bug KBDSW-7859 reported, forwarded to the developers. What is the status????
- 17 June 2024: Contacted @Matthew_NI via a private message. Waiting for your reply.
I only ask for help to get Komplete Kontrol stable. Then this tread can be closed and I can start making music / having fun.
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One thing to clarify: when I say not officially supported, I'm referring very specifically to DAW Control from Kontrol S MK3.
As a VST3, it is reasonable for a user to expect Komplete Kontrol 3 to perform in common VST environments. And I realize it's this that @Erwinew is asking about.
I'm following up via your DM
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I've been following this thread for a while, since I also experience the same issue with Reaper. So, please don't consider this bug to be a single user issue, it is not. Again, the version 3 of Komplete Kontrol is the sole and only plugin causing problem in Reaper.
I have downgraded to 2.9.6 and things are working fine, but having a non resizable inteface in 2024 is a real pain, especially on a 4K monitor. And we all know that been stuck on a non supported version is a dead end.
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Same problem here! Mainly with Arturia Plugins inside KK3, always crash in seconds.
No issues at all with KK2 software in more than 4 years!
The sad thing for me is I love Native Instruments, and have almost everything they do (I have Komplete 13 Collectors, Maschine MK3 Hardware, Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2, Komplete Audio 6, Traktor Controllers, etc, etc)
And this stupid bug is preventing me to buy a Kontrol S61 MK3, so I decided to keep my MK2 and continue using Komplete Kontrol Software 2.9 and hope one day they fix this bug.I'm using REAPER for more than 8 years, not gonna change my DAW cause of this issue.
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@Tulio Guilherme Grunwald Thanks for posting your comment as REAPER user. I'm also a REAPER / NI user for many years without issues, until the introduction of KK3 which is a useless product and a complete nightmare.
Current status: Native Instruments administrated this REAPER crash under KBDSW-7859 with low priority and did not investigate this problem further. Any request to to find a solution has been rejected and postponed by NI so far. Their focus is new product releases where fixing bugs in their products is lowest priority. NI premium support is not available (where a customer pays to fix a silly bug introduced by NI like this).
NI decide if and when to fix this problem and not earlier than October 2024 according to multiple private conversations. However, this problem was already reported in November 2023 and there is a high risk for all REAPER users that this problem will never be fixed: There is no commitment from NI to actively resolve this critical bug.
Misleading Komplete Kontrol VST3 product specifications and system requirements:
- REAPER is not listed in Komplete Kontrol product system requirement section DAW integration . This is no problem: Full REAPER integration can be easily addressed via DrivenByMoss plugin for REAPER.
- Any NI plugin states for Windows/MacOS: Stand-alone, VST3, AAX without specifying which DAW's are tested or supported by NI. A VST3 compatible plugin should work in any DAW, but in fact it comes with zero support.
- Nobody at NI could confirm which DAW's are officially supported for VST3 compatible plugins like Kontakt/Massive/GuitarRig/etc. Instead, NI support engineers blame you as REAPER customer to use it in an unsupported environment, for example This statement is not traceable to the the VST3 system requirements and therefor invalid from legal point of view. Instead, NI uses this statement to avoid KK3 product support.
NI: Take your responsibility and handle critical bug reports like this at equal priority. 10+ months of response time is not acceptable.
Strong advice is to ship your product back to the webshop ASAP to get your money back and post a negative review on the webshop and Trustpilot. This problem will not be fixed in upcoming months for sure which is a shame and damage to the brand name NI. It is seriously questionable if NI will survive in near feature without listening to customers and ignore customer feedback. My investments are on hold.
If you are a REAPER user, please reply to this thread. The more frustrated and unsatisfied customers, the higher the pressure on NI for their unacceptable product support and misleading product system requirements.
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@Matthew_NI follow-up from:
The discussion is that you and other NI support engineers stated that KK3 is used
in an unsupported DAWwhich is not traceable to the product system requirements. I've requested multiple times to point to the exact location where this is clearly documented based on facts. We do not accept assumptions. So far I did not see a response from NI and use an escalation path that this support is not handled correctly.I've discussed the screenshot below with my legal counter, did research and confirmed that for none of the NI VST3 compatible plugins specifies which DAW's are supported. Take a look at Kontakt where there is also no list of supported DAW's. The same applies to Komplete Kontrol. Therefor, your statement is invalid and NI should handle support equally, not at low priority.
Here is an example screenshot for Kontakt and identical to Komplete which does not mention any required DAW support:
You only refer to the product specification
DAW integrationsections which is a feature between the keyboard and DAW integration. This section contains a list of supportedDAW integrationswhere REAPER is not listed. Correct,DAW integrationis missing and acceptable as this can be resolved with a 3rd party plugin. Missing DAW integration is not an issue.DAW integration and VST3 support are two different things and should not be confused. Reply from the NI legal department did not understand this difference.
A bug in Kontakt 7 with similar behavior was fixed in a matter of weeks after product launch, but cannot be prioritized for Komplete Kontrol 3.2.1. Your organization should reserve development time to resolve customer reported bugs instead of allocating most of the engineers to new product development. It results in these support issues and many customer complains on many different forums in general, not specifically to this topic.
Now it is up to the NI legal department to justify which DAW's are supported according to the product specification and requested to justify why this support is handled as low priority as it is crashing the DAW where the product cannot be used other than a MIDI keyboard.
When the product specifications are clear, customers will not buy the product and saves support cost and customer frustration. Both situations results in losing customers anyway when REAPER is no longer supported and is a serious damage to the brand name NI. The news is now rapidly spread.
We've communicated all of the above to the user, who remains unsatisfied
You are talking about 10 to 13 months minimum lead time before customers can start using the Komplete Kontrol keyboard. Yes, I am still unsatisfied about this as you and NI cannot provide a solution.
I am still waiting for a reply from your legal department.
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As stated:
The bug (a crash with Komplete Kontrol in Reaper) is known, and filed.
It has been prioritized appropriately against the issues reported by other users that we're also working on.
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The bug (a crash with Komplete Kontrol in Reaper) is known, and filed.
It has been prioritized appropriately against the issues reported by other users that we're also working on.
No idea how this results in a solution for REAPER customers.
Updated Komplete Kontrol v3.3.2 also crashes REAPER 6 and 7.
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