Audio Of 2! Bar Loop Out Of Sync

EmAge
EmAge Member Posts: 30 Member
edited August 2023 in Maschine

Hello,

Just checking out Maschine 2 with Maschine MK3.

Don't know if this is a bug or what, but I encountered an issue that I can't explain.

  • I tried to drag a 1 bar pattern as audio into my DAW (Studio One). Everthing's fine. Audio is sync with the DAW.
  • I tried to drag a 2 bar pattern into Studio One and get an async audio file. Much slower BPM.


Can someone explain it ? Or has encountered the same issue ?


Best regards,

Marcel



Edit: Seems to be an issue with Studio One, because there are no problems in Cubase 12.

Best Answer

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,051 Expert
    edited August 2023 Answer ✓

    Ok. What I see from your picture are a couple of problems (even the one bar loop has an “error’). They are not difficult to understand, but not that fast to explain. I’ll try my best. (Sorry for the Menus being in Italian in the screenshots, but I think you can understand anyway where things are)


    First of all, let’s start from what you already noticed. This is due by your loop containing a sound that continue after the one bar is finished. Therefore Studio One, while importing the audio files, doesn’t get the tempo in a correct way. You can see it by right clicking on the audio file:


    This can be “fixed” easily in a couple of ways: you can change the info of the audio file here on the “right click menu” by telling it the right File Tempo for every file you import or you can disable the tempo timestretch, for a single track in its track inspector or for the whole song, in the menus or when creating the song.

    First method is better: you’ll have to do it every time you import an audio file, but at least if you’ll need later to use timestretch, you’ll still be able to do it.


    You can easily test that the culprit is the sound continuing after the end of the pattern by creating a simple pattern without any of those. A simple Kick Snare Kick Snare for example will export just correctly, with the audio file being of the exact length and the File Tempo detected appropriately.


    And here comes the second problem that you probably haven’t noticed yet: if you export something that continues sounding after the defined number of bars end, the audio file created will be longer than the amount of bars (in your first audio file the waveform ends in the first bar, but the audio file is 2 bars long). That’s because the last sound exceeds over the second bar mark.

    All of this leads to an even bigger issue: exporting something like this, if you want to loop it also in Studio One, the sounds “exceeding” will always be interrupted. In some cases it’s not a big problem, but if you think about a sustained guitar note at the end of the loop being truncated you can see that this is not the desired behavior.

    To avoid this, there is a better solution for exporting loops: telling Maschine to optimize the exported loop to contain also the tail of the sound.

    This must be done in the Export Audio Menu under File. You don’t have to export it from there into a folder, just chose the option and push close. Once you set it up there, also the drag & drop export will follow this rule.

    This is probably also why in Cubase you don’t notice this problem: it import the loop truncating any tail and creating the loop of the exact number of bars. But it will not sound correctly.

    The only problem with this is that the tail of the sound will be “baked” at the beginning into the exported audio.

    Therefore if you want to have the first “cycle” without the tail (e.g. at the beginning of a song) you will have to export also a version without the sounds that have a tail (maybe by deselecting the Loop Optimize and using the first method in this “mini tutorial”). You put this first audio file where you want this part to start and then after this one you put the second audio file with the Loop Optimize that you can then loop as many times you want.


    All of this or you just record in Studio One by routing the Maschine output an audio file which is already long the whole song to avoid all these problems 😂😂😂

    Or you already arrange the whole part directly in Maschine.

    But if you want to import an audio file in Studio One and be able to manage it later, this is the way.


    I hope the way I explained things is clear enough. And don’t worry: once you’ll see how to do it, doing it will be way faster than writing it down 😉

Answers

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,051 Expert
    edited August 2023 Answer ✓

    Ok. What I see from your picture are a couple of problems (even the one bar loop has an “error’). They are not difficult to understand, but not that fast to explain. I’ll try my best. (Sorry for the Menus being in Italian in the screenshots, but I think you can understand anyway where things are)


    First of all, let’s start from what you already noticed. This is due by your loop containing a sound that continue after the one bar is finished. Therefore Studio One, while importing the audio files, doesn’t get the tempo in a correct way. You can see it by right clicking on the audio file:


    This can be “fixed” easily in a couple of ways: you can change the info of the audio file here on the “right click menu” by telling it the right File Tempo for every file you import or you can disable the tempo timestretch, for a single track in its track inspector or for the whole song, in the menus or when creating the song.

    First method is better: you’ll have to do it every time you import an audio file, but at least if you’ll need later to use timestretch, you’ll still be able to do it.


    You can easily test that the culprit is the sound continuing after the end of the pattern by creating a simple pattern without any of those. A simple Kick Snare Kick Snare for example will export just correctly, with the audio file being of the exact length and the File Tempo detected appropriately.


    And here comes the second problem that you probably haven’t noticed yet: if you export something that continues sounding after the defined number of bars end, the audio file created will be longer than the amount of bars (in your first audio file the waveform ends in the first bar, but the audio file is 2 bars long). That’s because the last sound exceeds over the second bar mark.

    All of this leads to an even bigger issue: exporting something like this, if you want to loop it also in Studio One, the sounds “exceeding” will always be interrupted. In some cases it’s not a big problem, but if you think about a sustained guitar note at the end of the loop being truncated you can see that this is not the desired behavior.

    To avoid this, there is a better solution for exporting loops: telling Maschine to optimize the exported loop to contain also the tail of the sound.

    This must be done in the Export Audio Menu under File. You don’t have to export it from there into a folder, just chose the option and push close. Once you set it up there, also the drag & drop export will follow this rule.

    This is probably also why in Cubase you don’t notice this problem: it import the loop truncating any tail and creating the loop of the exact number of bars. But it will not sound correctly.

    The only problem with this is that the tail of the sound will be “baked” at the beginning into the exported audio.

    Therefore if you want to have the first “cycle” without the tail (e.g. at the beginning of a song) you will have to export also a version without the sounds that have a tail (maybe by deselecting the Loop Optimize and using the first method in this “mini tutorial”). You put this first audio file where you want this part to start and then after this one you put the second audio file with the Loop Optimize that you can then loop as many times you want.


    All of this or you just record in Studio One by routing the Maschine output an audio file which is already long the whole song to avoid all these problems 😂😂😂

    Or you already arrange the whole part directly in Maschine.

    But if you want to import an audio file in Studio One and be able to manage it later, this is the way.


    I hope the way I explained things is clear enough. And don’t worry: once you’ll see how to do it, doing it will be way faster than writing it down 😉

  • EmAge
    EmAge Member Posts: 30 Member
    edited August 2023

    Thank you so much for the effort mate. Really appreciate it.

    i‘m on the road, but looking forward to study and practice what you wrote. Notice the rhyme lol.


    One thing, I‘m just thinking about is. Instead of dragging the audio from Maschine to S1, I could drag the MIDI data from Maschine to S1. And then, because S1 has amazing fast features, right-click on the track in S1 and use the „transform to audio“ option.


    Soon, Marcel

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,051 Expert

    You’re welcome

    Dragging midi will cause even more problems. Midi drag export multiple separated files (one for every sound) and therefore you will have to also route the midi one by one. All of this gives wonderful possibilities (like having one track for every sound and allowing e.g. to put different fxs for different sounds. But for just having the audio loop in S1 it’s unnecessary job.

    And in any case it won’t solve the issue of sounds tails being interrupted.

    Same thing will happen also if you try to just simply route the audio of the track containing Maschine to another audio track and record it there

  • EmAge
    EmAge Member Posts: 30 Member
    edited August 2023

    I see there are many ways leading to Rome. I try to find my way, with the best workflow. You gave me many ideas and I think I know what to do, ... probably tomorrow. *yawn* Thank you again and good night. :)

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,051 Expert
    edited August 2023

    Good night. And remember also that Rome wasn’t built in a day. Probably because they were undecided about which road to chose to go there 😂

Back To Top