Is Maschine Plus a beta for an awesome next release?

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  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    1) Apple PC is closed platform, no standard. No one may make AS computer, except Apple. x86 is standard, there are hundreds of PC producers.

    2) AMD and even current Intel CPUs are stronger than strongest AS chip.

    3) Current AMD chips deliver comparable CPU power/energy needed ratio like M1.

    4) 25% stronger AMD CPUs and with even lower consumption per operation needs in eight months.

    5) Even stronger AMD CPUs with even lower consumption comming in 2023.

    6) There is more Linux computers than Apple ones. By the way M+ is Linux device.

    What about Apple? Will they have CPU that brings twice or more power next year? And quadruple in 2025? And ten times more in 2028?

    We will see soon.

  • sp4o4
    sp4o4 Member Posts: 8 Member

    That's supper interesting. I just bought a maschine+ for $630 on Ebay. I might go for the Frankenstein on it..


    Send the link to the higher cpu! I'm that brave soul.


    I definitely understand what it is they made. I think my frustrations is loving the device so much. When I use it like my mpc 2500 with mainly sampling one shots and vinyl its fine. But What I feel is a lot of users including myself would have paid the extra bit of coin to have the higher spec. Because it starts to become evident very quickly that it can't handle a lot of things. More so audio crackles at 65-75% shouldn't be happening. But my biggest frustration comes in the form of I want to sit down turn on maschine+ and make some sounds its not an intuitive interface. I know the synth vst's on computers have more real estate. But not coming up with some for standalone is a head scratcher. You to have make everything on the computer an import a preset and that just boggles my mind. I don't want to do that. It's fun to do preset jams an stuff but I love making my own sounds. I just wish there was a better interface utilizing the screens.

    My hope like everyone's is they refine the software for the platform. I do understand how they made it. But makes you wonder why they did it the way they did and not for see these problems just from a code stand point and the standalone stand point.

    One reason I will never sell the 2500. It just works and is easy to fix.. I don't know what will happen in 5-10 years time with the maschine+ and if it's still supported or if you can get parts for them. It's a great piece of gear but will be interesting on the part front in years to come as well.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,680 mod
    edited January 2022

    This discussion that X CPU is better than Y is really silly folks, Intel still beats AMD depending on the application, and vice versa... Intel is the champ in clock speed due to the mature/old architecture, if you compare direct equivalent CPU's, price-wise AMD is no longer a cheap alternative, prices are becoming equivalent... In the server/workstation segment AMD is the champ and M1's don't even belong in the workstation conversation, for now, they might great at some things for their power consumption but suck at others. If Audio would be as documented and benchmarked as gaming is by the tech industry perhaps this could be a more factual discussion but it's really not.

    There's a lot of gray between black and white and I am not sure how any of this relates to the OP actual topic.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,680 mod
    edited January 2022

    Wow.... No way... Really!?? 😱 You're crazier than I am my friend, there's a very low chance of success.

    I have no idea if the SoC needs some kind of bootloader installed prior to being able to run/install NI's custom Linux distro, it probably does because it has a reset function, installing the first OS would require quite some knowledge... I think. Let me try to get some info from folks with way more knowledgeable than me and I'll get back at you.


    @sp4o4

    More so audio crackles at 65-75% shouldn't be happening. 

    It does tho, at least for me, Audio on my computers will crackle wayyyy before it reaches 100% CPU usage, especially at lower buffer sizes, at higher rates like 512+ it's more accurate but definitively not a 1:1 thing.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,006 Expert

    @sp4o4 wrote:

    You to have make everything on the computer an import a preset and that just boggles my mind. I don't want to do that. It's fun to do preset jams an stuff but I love making my own sounds.

    Me too. And while using presets to spark inspiration, I often use DrumSynth, PolySynth or Monark with the Init preset and create the sounds from scratch. Does work quite well for me.

    Would I love to have a GUI for the synths like the MPC Live has? Sure! Is it a requirement to create sounds? Not really.

    A whole different story is Massive (and Absyth when it hopefully arrives): I always wanted to have it in a hardware box to have a more physical experience, but way too many controls are missing. To have that fixed (possibly with better UI) is definitely on my wishlist!

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert
    edited February 2022

    If that suits you, use MK3 with M1. I use it with AMD based Win PC with techspec that suit me. And yet another people use Maschine+ and it suits them.

    And if one day M+ Mk2 comes and it will have techspec that will meet my needs, I will use it.

    We do not live in binary world.

    PS.

    And, by the way macOS runs also on AMD CPUs, why shouldnt it. And Maschine might probably run on Linux based PC. In Windows emulation mode.

  • sp4o4
    sp4o4 Member Posts: 8 Member

    Awesome! That's what I was researching yesterday what I would need..

  • maxmatteo
    maxmatteo Member Posts: 8 Member

    regarding a cpu model change: the processing board inside the m+ is interchangable.

    current board: https://www.congatec.com/en/products/qseven/conga-qa5/

    so swapping it with the latest Elkhart Lake celerons is theoretically possible.

    (like these: https://www.congatec.com/en/products/qseven/conga-qa7/)


    from the board producer roughly 50% more power:

    https://www.congatec.com/de/technologien/intel-elkhart-lake/

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 854 Expert
    edited February 2022

    Wow 650€ for a hardly used Mas+, that's a steal.. maybe I should buy a second one 😎

    I remember exactly the same kind of collective butthurt when Akai Force had been out for a year.. People couldn't get rid of their Forces fast enough.. And look at the Force now!

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,006 Expert

    And currently prices for second hand Akai MPC/Force units are equally low… as are for other musical high end gear from Mesa Boogie amps to Moog synths.

    Seems more related to the pandemic than to the device quality.

  • Matt_NI
    Matt_NI Administrator Posts: 1,131 admin
    edited February 2022

    @Mutis FYI, I removed some of your pictures. Let's avoid making post with endless screenshots of random ads if possible. It's cluttering the thread and I'm not sure how relevant it is (one might be enough to make your point) 🙏

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    One may use Mk3 and Apple now, OR use Mk3 and Win Laptop now, instead of M+. According to Apple marketshare, more people have chosen the latter. There may be more reasons, but price might be one of them...

    That is how economy works.

    One of the AS architects has left Apple for Intel quite recently. Rumours say, that programmers in Apple complain about wages and keep leaving Apple.

    And by the way, it is no problem for Intel and AMD produce ARM CPUs... If there is demand for them.... But x86 is industry standard, there is so much SW, so much money has been invested. So, ARM would have to bring real benefits to make market to swap. The more probable path is, that x86 improves power consumption, than that ARM will end x86 era.

    M2 seems to focus on graphics part of APU, not that much CPU... If it goes that way few years longer AS will not be competetive to x86 that develops fast.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 2,006 Expert

    @Kubrak

    x86 that develops fast.

    If there was a development during the last 10 years, then I didn’t see much of it. Computers generally became faster because of more RAM and SSDs, and generally more affordable, but the performance hasn’t changed dramatically, did it?

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 3,145 Expert

    Well, how many cores had i7 10 years ago? Four. Now it is 16 full cores, at least for AMD. Four times more. And those cores are much better then the ones 10 years ago.

    But you are right, there was period of many years when there was not much improvements... (It might be one of the reasons Apple decided to go Apple Silicon) But past 4-5 years, since AMD came with Zen CPUs, the competition made Intel to move the butt.

    Currently one may see 10-20% per year CPU power improvement (per core) and at the same time more and more cores. Say, double per four years. In 10 years x86 CPU will do about 10 times more work than today.

    Apple will have hard times to keep the pace. There is competition between Intel and AMD. And they both will also compete with Apple to show x86 has the place on the earth....

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 3,680 mod

    Replying about the crazy idea before I forget. I asked around and you would borderline need hw/embedded developer knowledge to pull it off, even an sw developer might have trouble doing such an upgrade. You would need a compatible bootloader, create a distribution / firmware then fire up the compiler and additionally, extend the bootloader for missing stuff like possible crypto stuff or some specific custom drivers NI maybe did. Not a task for the average curious person.

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