Is Maschine Plus a beta for an awesome next release?



  • Akira-76
    Akira-76 Member Posts: 39 Helper
    edited January 2022

    On M+, you can already create modulation (curvy) with knobs or from an external gear (even no macro are set and even discret modulation are present). It is already possible to modify a modulation that was recorded when set on a macro (by mistake I've done it) or from an external gear (I just try it). So I don't see the difficulty to :

    • have a specific screen when you can see the curve or steps of the modulation like in Maschine 2
    • Also the ability to move up or down the whole modulation with one knob
    • And also "create macro" from the M+ and not from Maschine 2

    Certainly other things can be done, like copy/paste by selecting a step region, or to modify the sharpness of the modulation.

    It is imo way possible to implement those things without a touchpad or a touchscreen.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 419 Pro
    edited February 2022

    AMD lost the race the moment Apple released Apple Silicon and it’s outperforming Intel even over Rosetta. NI finally figured it out and it’s giving priority in support, next year next year… TODAY.

    Wake up and stop saying “is not” is slightly better” and “might be comparable”, it’s just sad you can’t see and understand how electronics worldwide work. Apple optimises and delivers “full round” solution (now even chips), AMD can’t optimize Windows and Windows was Intel until Apple Silicon made ALL brands look at ARM custom solutions or wishful thinking about RiscV but these are promises. Apple Silicon becoming the new standard is a fact. Users are complaining about compatibility towards their new powerful M1 chips not the opposite so come back not in 5 years… just at the end of this 2022 and tell me how it gone. The brands losing the boat maybe will get buried by the shift (even Apple is doing it slooooow to allow them catch the wave) but Mac Pros are around the corner… how gone with Mac Pro AMD? Do you remember the trashbin black one?

    Future is custom silicon like it was in the past for Roland/Yamaha/Korg and Texas Instruments but instead required implementation inside Windows… brands bringing their APIs to their silicon. Maybe somekind of new standard will come, who knows? As usual Apple leading these kind of shifts and old iPads doing more than newer surfaces (lack of developers, developers, developers…) Linux? Mm sadly no.

    So the other option is NI going the standalone route but bruteforce approach will get short jumped by optimization. Nobody wants a hot laptop if they can get silent and fanless one… more efficient so in the end more powerful in “get the job done” with less power consumption. Bruteforce embed systems will show its age faster as it happened with M+ board.

    Maschine mk3 (used) with macbook air M1 was cheaper than 1399$ M+ price release and it could run Reaktor/Komtakt… Traktor…

    Ships October 1, 2020

    One month later starting at 999$

    Now M+ and mk3 are being sold cheap second hand (also studio)…

    … probably due M+ bugs, Apple Silicon incompatibilities and Sp404mk2.

    Facts today, not wishful thinking and dreaming about AMD crushing Apple in any area… users will keep getting macs and Apple will keeping improving their OSs. AMD will need a miracle to get anywhere near to Apple and you will be witness in less than 2 years (or even 1). It just depends on Apple, that’s the whole point: It’s the defacto Standard and only standalones (well optimized) could get some part of the market (Pioneer, Denon, Numark-Denon-based…) but these are behind since Apple controls their chip design and production and software on top, can invest huge amounts of money in key resources and partners etc etc etc.

    Wake up…

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,052 Expert

    1) Apple PC is closed platform, no standard. No one may make AS computer, except Apple. x86 is standard, there are hundreds of PC producers.

    2) AMD and even current Intel CPUs are stronger than strongest AS chip.

    3) Current AMD chips deliver comparable CPU power/energy needed ratio like M1.

    4) 25% stronger AMD CPUs and with even lower consumption per operation needs in eight months.

    5) Even stronger AMD CPUs with even lower consumption comming in 2023.

    6) There is more Linux computers than Apple ones. By the way M+ is Linux device.

    What about Apple? Will they have CPU that brings twice or more power next year? And quadruple in 2025? And ten times more in 2028?

    We will see soon.

  • sp4o4
    sp4o4 Member Posts: 8 Member

    That's supper interesting. I just bought a maschine+ for $630 on Ebay. I might go for the Frankenstein on it..

    Send the link to the higher cpu! I'm that brave soul.

    I definitely understand what it is they made. I think my frustrations is loving the device so much. When I use it like my mpc 2500 with mainly sampling one shots and vinyl its fine. But What I feel is a lot of users including myself would have paid the extra bit of coin to have the higher spec. Because it starts to become evident very quickly that it can't handle a lot of things. More so audio crackles at 65-75% shouldn't be happening. But my biggest frustration comes in the form of I want to sit down turn on maschine+ and make some sounds its not an intuitive interface. I know the synth vst's on computers have more real estate. But not coming up with some for standalone is a head scratcher. You to have make everything on the computer an import a preset and that just boggles my mind. I don't want to do that. It's fun to do preset jams an stuff but I love making my own sounds. I just wish there was a better interface utilizing the screens.

    My hope like everyone's is they refine the software for the platform. I do understand how they made it. But makes you wonder why they did it the way they did and not for see these problems just from a code stand point and the standalone stand point.

    One reason I will never sell the 2500. It just works and is easy to fix.. I don't know what will happen in 5-10 years time with the maschine+ and if it's still supported or if you can get parts for them. It's a great piece of gear but will be interesting on the part front in years to come as well.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 1,458 mod
    edited January 2022

    This discussion that X CPU is better than Y is really silly folks, Intel still beats AMD depending on the application, and vice versa... Intel is the champ in clock speed due to the mature/old architecture, if you compare direct equivalent CPU's, price-wise AMD is no longer a cheap alternative, prices are becoming equivalent... In the server/workstation segment AMD is the champ and M1's don't even belong in the workstation conversation, for now, they might great at some things for their power consumption but suck at others. If Audio would be as documented and benchmarked as gaming is by the tech industry perhaps this could be a more factual discussion but it's really not.

    There's a lot of gray between black and white and I am not sure how any of this relates to the OP actual topic.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 1,458 mod
    edited January 2022

    Wow.... No way... Really!?? 😱 You're crazier than I am my friend, there's a very low chance of success.

    I have no idea if the SoC needs some kind of bootloader installed prior to being able to run/install NI's custom Linux distro, it probably does because it has a reset function, installing the first OS would require quite some knowledge... I think. Let me try to get some info from folks with way more knowledgeable than me and I'll get back at you.


    More so audio crackles at 65-75% shouldn't be happening. 

    It does tho, at least for me, Audio on my computers will crackle wayyyy before it reaches 100% CPU usage, especially at lower buffer sizes, at higher rates like 512+ it's more accurate but definitively not a 1:1 thing.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 760 Guru

    @sp4o4 wrote:

    You to have make everything on the computer an import a preset and that just boggles my mind. I don't want to do that. It's fun to do preset jams an stuff but I love making my own sounds.

    Me too. And while using presets to spark inspiration, I often use DrumSynth, PolySynth or Monark with the Init preset and create the sounds from scratch. Does work quite well for me.

    Would I love to have a GUI for the synths like the MPC Live has? Sure! Is it a requirement to create sounds? Not really.

    A whole different story is Massive (and Absyth when it hopefully arrives): I always wanted to have it in a hardware box to have a more physical experience, but way too many controls are missing. To have that fixed (possibly with better UI) is definitely on my wishlist!

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 419 Pro
    edited February 2022

    Defacto industry standard.

    How is going Maschine for linux requests? And for AMD?

    Aside Bitwig… what other DAW with macOS support is supported by linux? Why?

    Why I can run cubasis at my iPad but you can’t run Logic Pro on your AMD or Android (linux based) machines?

    In fact we don’t need to wait. Apple is leading the market and its proposal is so smart than even x86 centric brands like NI must taken Apple Silicon as a priority in their roadmaps. Other brands did it at the first day because understood that shift properly and have native versions nowadays.

    It’s that simple. Embrace it or keep trying to convince yourself and others but AMD will need a dedicated OS and developers to port apps into that OS etc etc etc.

    There are tons of mobile/tablets but people serious about music know the king is the iPad and that’s because a decade ago Apple ask Intel about developing a custom chip and Intel reject it. Apple put a ARM macOS over it and boom. Don’t worry I was like you these days asking for modbook (macbook with touchscreen) but time gave Apple the reason…

    The rest is history. M1 is the same history repeating itself but on desktop/laptop and Intel/AMD aren’t the solution. Apple could put an AMD if required inside a mac but AMD can’t run macOS without Apple consent.

    The point is macOS due it’s optimised OS over custom, now inHouse design and build, chips.

    It has full industry support and do the transition easy and attractive to developers (Rosetta 2 the best example).

    It’s not perfect but it’s the less bad proposal in computing field for musicians.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,052 Expert
    edited February 2022

    If that suits you, use MK3 with M1. I use it with AMD based Win PC with techspec that suit me. And yet another people use Maschine+ and it suits them.

    And if one day M+ Mk2 comes and it will have techspec that will meet my needs, I will use it.

    We do not live in binary world.


    And, by the way macOS runs also on AMD CPUs, why shouldnt it. And Maschine might probably run on Linux based PC. In Windows emulation mode.

  • sp4o4
    sp4o4 Member Posts: 8 Member

    Awesome! That's what I was researching yesterday what I would need..

  • maxmatteo
    maxmatteo Member Posts: 4 Member

    regarding a cpu model change: the processing board inside the m+ is interchangable.

    current board:

    so swapping it with the latest Elkhart Lake celerons is theoretically possible.

    (like these:

    from the board producer roughly 50% more power:

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 268 Pro
    edited February 2022

    Wow 650€ for a hardly used Mas+, that's a steal.. maybe I should buy a second one 😎

    I remember exactly the same kind of collective butthurt when Akai Force had been out for a year.. People couldn't get rid of their Forces fast enough.. And look at the Force now!

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 760 Guru

    And currently prices for second hand Akai MPC/Force units are equally low… as are for other musical high end gear from Mesa Boogie amps to Moog synths.

    Seems more related to the pandemic than to the device quality.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 419 Pro
    edited February 2022

    It’s not about what suits me, it’s about why brands take in consideration Apple as platform. Ableton just released M1 compatible version after beta time.

    M+ mk2… another wishful thinking. For the money you can have mk3+macbook air M1 (or mac mini) today, today…

    NI will require testing and probably recompiling for that specific board. That’s a can of worns… but also forget about upgrading actual model. NI strategic has been rejecting these paths and that’s why I try to explain Kubrak why Apple points the path brands follow. NI could get a better CPU but the main issue is software on M+.

    We aren’t in binary world… we are in shifting field. Other computer brands are looking at Apple strategy and announcing custom chips for their new ARM proposals so maybe it ends on better windows or specific Linux distro (but it will require a standard or you will get the same fragmentation as Android).

    “Several major PC makers asked about the issue by Fortune said they already had a few models running ARM-based processors. HP's Envy 2 two-in-one laptop and Acer's Chromebook R13 used ARM-based chips from Qualcomm and Mediatek, respectively, the companies said. Dell, which did not mention an ARM product yet, noted: "We continue to evaluate all CPU options as part of our roadmap plans."

    Lenovo and Samsung did not comment. Samsung's Galaxy Book S and Lenovo's Yoga 5G laptop run on ARM chips from Qualcomm. 

    Intel has been in a rut for several years amid difficulty moving its chip manufacturing to the latest technology. Taiwan Semi has had no such problems, fueling the performance of Apple’s mobile chips and those from other Intel rivals like Advanced Micro Devices and Qualcomm.”

    Hackintosh times are over too.

    The moment kext developers see how hard is to implement new Asilicon features by brute force they will drop the effort but let’s hope they jump into the new Linux (or maybe Haiku) to give some competition to Apple. Anyways it will take few years where Apple will keep improving their proposals. It could be perfectly possible run Logic on iPad pro. It will probably never happen (almost as full desktop app) maybe in the future Apple implements some kind of virtual machine inside iPadOS (like Rosetta but for iPad). Time will tell…

    About MPC prices…

    It seems not. Maybe some M+ users gone Sp404mk2 and others MPC (old and new). Mpc1000 get around 400€ and It’s the first time I see Mpc One “cheap”. Force is keeping value (it was 750€ time ago at wallapop). Pandemic had some impact of course but it seems different on each brand and model. If I do the same with the word Traktor… :sad:

    @Kubrak use whatever suits you but as I will do mine but understand how market works before next time discussion. All are the brands wrong going ARM instead AMD? Let’s hope any optimised solution comes to the field and gives Apple some competency but nowadays that solution doesn’t exists and brands like NI should find their own solution beyond x86 or go out the market because the “old x86 wintel” market is done. AMD should join forces with some computer vendors and dedicated OS but my gut says “it will not happen” or only for workstations as a niche. Nvida tried to buy ARM but it wasn’t possible (it could have been good for the market and not so good for Apple probably…) and RiscV it’s a beautiful promise… will it be a true contender?

    You can think I’m a super Apple fan but not. Mac mini late 12 maxxed, iPad mini4 (2015 bought at 2017 or later I can’t remember), some iPhone SE as embed platforms (one for koala, another for loopy pro, another for djplayer…) because I don’t like the AUv3 trend and risky memory approaches for my gigs but it’s clear water what means Apple Silicon… Future and Present. We don’t need to wait and see, it’s happening in front of us…

    Probably not updated day by day but look

    offtopic end by answering the OP question:

    ”It’s Maschine plus a beta for an awesome next release?”

    No. It’s a good idea bad delivered in time showing how unaware was NI about Apple Silicon. Hopefully it will get more optimised and show it’s true potential giving users part of what they expect but probably never the full Maschine software experience most wanted from a 1.3k priced gear.

    Don’t expect an M+mk2 soon, it will be even worst as strategy. It could arrive but too soon will be like Denon sc5000, sc6000… very risky movement IMHO.

    2c and last message for a while. Peace.

  • Matt_NI
    Matt_NI Administrator Posts: 940 admin
    edited February 2022

    @Mutis FYI, I removed some of your pictures. Let's avoid making post with endless screenshots of random ads if possible. It's cluttering the thread and I'm not sure how relevant it is (one might be enough to make your point) 🙏

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