Is Maschine Plus a beta for an awesome next release?



  • Jacob_J
    Jacob_J Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

    NI should consider moving from X86 to ARM architecture . NI softwares work well on apple silicon with Rosetta2 so there's no reason why NI cannot port their code to ARM. There's a whole bunch of ARM SoCs that perform way better than the poor ATOM.

  • Percivale
    Percivale Member Posts: 44 Helper

    Akai MPC Touch --> MPC Live --> MPC Live MkII

    NI Maschine+ --> Maschine Pro? --> Maschine Pro MKII?

    There was a time where NI had it good, Traktor was king in DJ world and they had the Maschine which was out of this world. Then, something happened, they pushed for controllers without jog wheels, pushed the industry to accept Stems and pushed to sell expansion packs as a viable business model, etc. Were they successful - you can be the judge. The rest is history with the latest chapter of NI being acquired by Investment Firm Francisco Partners. I hope the new leadership at this company can steer it through and bring us the NI goodness once more.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 419 Pro

    I told some time ago that worst competitor to M+ will be Maschine mk3 on Apple Silicon mac (let’s say macbook “fanless” air). It can handle the full version over Rosetta 2 and cost was on par at release time. As time goes that gap between old atom and new Apple silicon is more noticeable. That’s a actual disposable solution not a “M+ mk2 wishful thinking”.

    NI was unaware and dismissed it. They could improve the Traktor dj app route (team) and extend it to Maschine (almost mikro) like Akai did with Mpc fly (the best product of the failed Reinnasence) but both companies gone the x86 route and are falling apart in standalone field. People waiting 2 years for disk streaming on Force are a good example on 1.5k $ device… the hype of sp404mk2 (and rc505mk2) are related since Beatmakers (and live loop artists) search for fast and stable workflows. Old Mpc users hyped themselves with the Live and they must wait years (again) to get jitter free midi sync clock… and still mpc1000 is better than news in that front (Akai changed Midi Production Computer for Music Production Computer…) M+ at wallapop trying to keep value, Sp404mk1 at wallapop were scalatimg in price until mk2 release… now prices are nuts but all due some M+/Spmk1 want the Sp404mk2. Chip shortage and Apple being nice with developers are giving “extra ball” to proposals like M+ but it will not last and in some moment iPads will get mac apps somehow (maybe wrapped with limited cappabilities, maybe full power but “freeze mode”). Time will tell but even if never happens, Apple Silicon is outperforming Intels over Rosetta meanwhile x86 needs a answer (or maybe riscV?)

    tic toc tic toc…

    Meanwhile at mobile field BM3/Koala (also for Android/Raspi), DjPlayer/Djay and now Loopy Pro. I know these aren’t perfect but most of them are one-person-drive projects or very small teams. I can point towards amazing AUv3 synths/fx/midi… plugins (and how cheap are against desktop counterparts) but it doesn’t matter. We are in shifting waters and M+ was discarded by the old NI board team because even them know it was outdated from the beggining. M+ was finally released as “flight forward” but in the worst possible moment (very few months before Apple Silicon announcement afair) so I’m very curious about what will come next. I can be very wrong as often pointed (and sincerly I hope that’s the case) or be totally on point and then NI is doomed (or hiding some card tricks I’m unaware of).

    Time is telling us. At the M+ release time I was alone pointing this “underpower M+” even without touching it and how users will get pissed in the future. Now is that future. Will NI recognize they were wrong or keep “flying forward”?

    The worst part is “I’m not just complaining and enjoying World burning”. I tried to help the most I could and even received some “validation” over PM discussions with Maschine team but at the same time I was told “things will be set on place at time”. Well, time is now… NI where are the new “news”? Recognizing Apple Silicon as a priority after “missing the boat” and rejecting the accountability is the same to be unaware… What NI expects from powerusers? More patience… for what? Since there is still not enough transparency (aside the great job/effort is doing communication team) almost users want releases/fixes/announcements… anything. Kontakt Beta is ok but isn’t enough IMO.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 34 Member

    Korg Kronos is quite capable synth and its power is based solely on 2-core Intel Atom 1.66 Gz processor. M+ is twice as powerful in this regard. So M+ hardware is quite fine for its tasks, software is key element here. All bugs, missing features, audio glitches, high CPU utilisation - all this is software related IMHO. And what is future path of this software - nobody knows. All i've seen from NI in public space is only promises to soon publish news regarding updates, cool new features etc.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 760 Guru

    For those of you who think the Maschine+ development team didn‘t evaluate the options:

    Posted by @D-One on Ye Olde Forum in the thread For the curious folks.

  • Percivale
    Percivale Member Posts: 44 Helper
    edited January 2022

    Maschine+ is not a $800-$900 price point device to begin with.

    MK3 - processing power requirements below for reference.

    • Windows: from 10 (64-bit)
    • Mac OS (64 Bit): from 10.13
    • CPU minimum: Intel Core i5
    • RAM minimum: 4 GB
    • Hard disk space minimum: 3 GB
  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,052 Expert


    M1 might be better than Intel, but it is not better than AMD. OK, it is slightly better in power consumption, but it is due to the fact, it is produced on more advanced process. And more expensive....

    Current AMD processors, released week, two ago, might be comparable to M1 even in consumption... And in less than a year, stronger, faster and less power hungry AMD Zen 4 generation comes....

    I bet, Apple will loose the race in few years and sooner or later will be forced to launch Rosetta 3.

  • drewhjava
    drewhjava Member Posts: 29 Helper

    This is what I was trying to say in this thread. A Roland Fantom has infinitely less power than a Maschine or MPC yet it can do 50x as much. What does that really tell you? The difference is all the OG's still work at Roland/Yamaha/Korg and understand low-level firmware. There's a lot of history there

  • Akira-76
    Akira-76 Member Posts: 39 Helper

    Arguing about the specs go nowhere because if the software is not optimize for it, the best CPU will not make a better device. And the missing piece is the answer to the question : why the ingenieer of NI made the choice they made?

    As some of them mentioned, exist device that have less spec that are optimized. So it is not an impossible thing to optimize a software for a particular specs. It is the work of ingenieers to find the right balance. So the question is here imo if this balance was well done with Maschine+? And will they find the right balance if an MK2 will come?

    But more important imo is that NI should communicate more about how they will overcome the "disaster" that result of the unbalanced choice they made. Technically and as customer care.

    Just saying : "a new firmware will come with that and that" without schedule or stage, is imo not enough.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 34 Member

    Actually Fantom has significantly more computing power. General purpose computer module inside Fantom is only control hardware for specialised board which actually performs realtime audio processing. Its power is in 4 Roland BMC chips, each with its own RAM/FLASH, 4 GB of shared RAM, etc... These BMCs are powerful DSPs designed with specific aim - crunch numbers using Roland algorithms. So we can`t compare M+ based on GP processor with Fantom based on specialised hardware, they are in different leagues. But anyway M+ hardware is good enough for purpose its built for.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 1,458 mod
    edited January 2022

    That would be a logistics nightmare and impossible as far as just replacing the Ram/CPU since it's an SoC, that means it's a single unit and non-upgradable unless you replace the whole thing. But... It's tiny detachable so users could do it themselves easily afaik. Here's a pic that AlexBuga shared on the old forum:

    The same company that makes those has some higher spec'd boards at similar TDP, it could be an interesting upgrade for more demanding users. Mouser sells them, I wonder if someone would just slap a new unit on the M+ if it would work easily... A brave soul out there needs to part ways with 300$ and try it out to ease my curiosity. 😂

    Still wouldn't fix any software issues which seems to be what most users consider problematic.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,052 Expert

    Good idea!!!

    And those willing to have ARM instead of x86 inside M+ may go for it. (Porting SW from Apple Silicon, when it comes, might work. Or no.)

    Qseven Computer-On-Modules - congatec

    It is a pity they do not have AMD as option.... Maybe one day in future.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,052 Expert
    edited January 2022


    Maschine 2 has minimal spec i5, 4 GB RAM. M+ is way weaker. NI could optimize SW to certain extent, but it has limits.... NI did the best they could to fit in TDP, space and price limits...

    And i5, 4GB is minimum requirement. I had problems even with older i7 running at 2.1 GHz and 16 GB RAM on many projects. So, I upgraded to 8C/16T running above 4 GHz and 64 GB memory. It will do for a year, two.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 1,458 mod
    edited January 2022

    It's as simple as "just use ARM like Apple".

    The M1 is not an off-the-shelf chip, it's a custom design on a dedicated and optimized OS backed by literally the richest company in the world with heaps of experience using mobile chips. The Surface Pro X also has a custom ARM CPU and it's performance is trash compared to an M1, most likely because even Microsoft with all their billions has trouble (or real interest) making something as good as Rosetta-2. NI is peanuts compared to such huge companies.

    In a thread like this not having enough CPU power to tun X instruments will always get mixed with stability issues and missing features, sort of unavoidable. Not sure if it's fair to compare a full-blown production software originally made for Win/Mac that was ported to Linux to a simple Synth.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 34 Member


    Its not so simple synth 😀 - its a workstation with a sequencer, multiple synth engines, FX chain, audio disk streaming etc. But my point is M+ hardware is fine and we do need to blame it. Software can and should be improved regarding bugs and missing features. But regarding performance - taking into consideration info from ADC-20 video i suppose its almost impossible without redoing everything from scratch. For my personal needs M+ performance is adequate, i just waiting in hope for bugs and workflow omissions to be fixed. With current state of software i cant use it, its just impossible. Sampler which cant browse sample library?! 🤣

Back To Top