Is it Legal to Sell Custom Presets for Massive?
Answers
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Okay, I just wasn't sure if it was rude to publicly post our conversation, but here it is:
From Me:
Hello, hope all is well!
I'm reaching out to ask about the licensing policy and legality of selling or offering custom user-made presets for NI plugins.
I'm looking into offering my user presets made for Massive X and other Native plugins on the Gumroad digital marketplace and am curious if selling these presets, or offering them for free, is permitted/allowed.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing back from you!
From Support:
Thanks for getting in touch. Unfortunately, we cannot agree to your intended sale of user presets:
Section 3.7 of our EULA states that our products may only be used for “commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions”, e.g. compositions, tracks, melodies, songs, albums, background scores or similar musical works.
The creation of other audio products is prohibited. Our intention behind this distinction is clear: We encourage our customers to see our products as music creation tools to make music and realise their creative musical ideas. However, our products should not be used in order to develop "new" music creation tools that are then sold to other third parties for their music productions.
Therefore, our products may not be used for other purposes, in particular not for the standalone distribution of individual samples, sound sets, audio loops or other components created with or derived from our products that are not considered music or audio productions. This also applies to the intended sale of individual presets created with our synths, which is not in line with our EULA.
We hope on your understanding!
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There are people who did factory presets for Massive X, and sell soundsets for it, like this guy:
There's gotta be a misunderstanding in the communication between you and NI support, because, it just can't be as you describe it.
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Section 3.7 of the Massive X EULA applies to sound libraries which have been bought for Massive X, by the way, see here:
"3.7 In case a sound library is part of the purchased Product the following Sound License Agreement shall apply in addition to the EULA:
The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement. The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited. Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone. Furthermore these samples, sound sets or audio may not be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound libraries or sound effects."
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IMO, that's some kind of generalized text, which should apply to all of their plugins, Kontakt instruments, soft synths, and what not, so it might be a bit misunderstandable. I'm 100% sure you can create presets from an init sound with Massive X, and also sell them. I don't know why someone from support might suggest otherwise, unless he or she has misunderstood the request.
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Okay, that makes sense to me now. I'll follow up with support and try to clarify my request.
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It's an interesting topic for sure. I'm curious about the outcome. Maybe I'm wrong, but, that would be a very weird thing, because, Massive (not Massive X) has the same stuff in its EULA, and, there's a gazillion of commercial soundsets for it.
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Good point, I'll report back with what I hear from support ;)
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I suspect this is just someone from support who is misinterpreting the EULA - maybe in this instance just asking the same person from support again is not going to be any more helpful - I think whoever it is they either don't know what they are talking about or don't understand the question
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At least I hope that's all it is. Massive X is certainly designed in a way that seems to discourage people selling or sharing non 'in house' content - for example we still can't create named user banks. If the reason is NI are trying to discourage the creation of distributable third party content that would be a stupid thing to do and something that is detrimental to the long term success of Massive X and to the community, but I could imagine people in the 'venture capitalist community' might see it differently.
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I hope so too and totally I agree it would be detrimental if not. Named user banks would def be awesome to have! I've been super excited about the idea of sharing user presets, even if just for free, since I first got Massive X so hope it's not discouraged. 🤞
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I still also think that there is some misunderstanding or misinterpretation here , even if only made by Support.
The "Section 3.7 of the Massive X EULA" reference is what to be expected but only to underline that you are not allowed to use anything that you do not have the rights to or using any parts of others creations without their explicit permission. I do no see the section 3.7 as having much to do with what you might create from scratch.
Also if you take what Support writes here and then apply that to Kontakt then it would almost sound as if no one is allowed to make Kontakt libraries which we al knows is not how it is - on the contrary.
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I think you're correct that the EULA is probably being misinterpreted. I politely followed up with support about this and also brought up examples of people selling their user presets in hopes of clearing up any confusion about what they're telling me is their policy. I'm waiting to hear back so will let you know what I receive.
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Whoever said that, is either ignorant, either with a limited knowledge, to say the least.
NI should make better choices about who is responsible for giving such answers.
Read carefully:
The creation of other audio products is prohibited. Our intention behind this distinction is clear: We encourage our customers to see our products as music creation tools to make music and realise their creative musical ideas. However, our products should not be used in order to develop "new" music creation tools that are then sold to other third parties for their music productions.
The whole phrase is a joke. If custom presets are "audio products" then the "creative musical ideas" are also "audio products". You can't separate the one from the other. Period.
Now, pay attention to the "bold" part, "sold to another third parties". He doesn't understand the simple fact that, Massive presets can be used only by Massive, aka Native Instruments! Clearly, there are no "third parties" involved here!
I hope for my beloved NI that this guy is not responsible for legal acts because any good lawyer would tear him apart in pieces, on any court… 😋
Bottom line:
If NI really want to play this game (and completely piss off too many of its loyal users and too many professionals worldwide too in the process), then it needs to change the EULA. Still, the fact is that custom made presets are user's intellectual property. It is your work (as long as it is original)!
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"Whoever told you that, is either ignorant, either with a limited knowledge, to say the least."
I don't know what you mean. Nobody told me that. And, told me WHAT exactly? I merely quoted from the Massive X EULA.
Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusion yourself, when none of us really know exactly how to interpret the EULA. I simply poined out how I understand it.
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