M+ Crackling noise, bpm decrease and sound loss when switching scenes

benMaj7
benMaj7 Member Posts: 14 Member

I have a new Maschine+, fully updated to latest firmware and software versions:

System 1.4.4.0

Maschine 2.16.0 (R112)

Firmware 0.1.9

I was browsing through example projects, playing around and I would like to know, if anyone has stumbled upon this issue which can be reproduced like this:

  1. select projects -> Mother Board -> Zone 16 example
  2. press SCENE button
  3. press play
  4. first switch between scenes by pressing the buttons
  5. now use left encoder button "Section Position" and switch between scenes

There is a crackling noise when switching scenes in (4) and (5). Also play speed decreases when switching. This is easily audible when rotating the encoder knob quickly. If I do this for some time, it happens that the sound is gone completely even though the playhead keeps moving. When pressing Stop and Play again, it works again.

I understand that fast scene switching is not a typical application, but speed deviation is bad. Crackling sounds may be due to analog samples cut in the middle - but this should be covered in signal processing in a live performance device.

Can somebody confirm this behaviour?

It is my second device. The first one swallowed notes in a random manner when activating the metronome. If this issue is a "regular" behavior I may wait for a fix. If not, I chose to wait for M+ Mark II.

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Comments

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,230 Expert

    What is the CPU load when this happens?

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 61 Helper

    System: 1.4.0.3 - same crackling, and playback also slows down. Faster encoder rotation - more it slows down.

    @benMaj7 can you plase check how it plays Motherboard: Boombleduple right after turning on or rebooting M+. With versions 1.4.3 and 1.4.4 my unit was stumbling at the beginning of bar 9 for a fraction of second, very annoying. But it was only during first play attempt after boot. All consecutive playbacks were fine until reboot/power off.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,230 Expert

    Since I don’t have that Expansion: Are there Loops in any Groups/Kits of those Projects?

  • benMaj7
    benMaj7 Member Posts: 14 Member

    It ranges from about 50-66. In between an exclamation mark symbol appears.

    Yes, I can confirm this issue with Bumbledoople. Actually, when loading this project the first time my M+ just crashed entirely. Showed "Loading" for a minute then the Logo.

    In general, it is possible that somehow during a live performance, this unit may slow down or cause crack noises which is a no-go for me. Any software should block user interaction, if it would cause audible performance issues even if it means a non-responsive UI in my (coding) opinion.

    Used groups are (forgive me, if I am too lazy to investigate their origins):

    • Sound16
    • Cymbal Mecha
    • 2Pranged
    • 3 Octave Sub
    • Voc Stance
    • SFX1
    • SFX2

    For me it was one crash too many. This device appears to me more like a prototype. I will send it back. Sad, beacuse the idea is great. Hopefully there will be a mark II soon.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod
    edited November 2022

    It's just the computer inside the M+ not being able to keep up, if I delete the last two Groups all the issues go way, keep in mind Expansion projects are not specially designed for the M+, by the looks of it they're not even tested... As critical as I am I wouldn't use a single expansion project as a gauge to decide how good or bad an M+ is and return it based on only that.

    Can somebody confirm this behaviour?

    Yes. It's even worst than what you describe, simply pressing play and then stop triggers a glitchy click 90% of the time regardless of what Scene I am in.

    The "speed deviation" is just the CPU struggling to process the audio, since it stutters the chunks of audio come in pieces for a lack of a better explanation, so if you then move the play head fast from side to side to make it struggle even more it gets so overwhelmed that Audio simply stops, but again, remove some stuff from the project to alleviate the CPU usage and it gets back to work.

    The real issue for me here is that the CPU usage % is definitely not accurate but same happens with regular computers as buffer size has a massive influence on at what point things start to pop and glitch; they should just let us change the buffer size and decide for ourselves the balance between latency and amount of stuff we can run. If I overwork the playhead it does show a warning exclamation icon (!) but not for the other more "normal" glitches.

    And yes... the playhead shortcut is totally not designed to scrub thru a song super fast while the project is playing or to change Scenes as one-shot tails will just overlap in between scenes, it's hard to be accurate, and prob lots of other issues.

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 61 Helper

    Yes, I can confirm this issue with Bumbledoople. Actually, when loading this project the first time my M+ just crashed entirely. Showed "Loading" for a minute then the Logo.

    I had had same and also ton of other weird issues until i did a factory reset by tech support advice. Now my unit works mostly fine except these annoying stumblings on the first project playback. Actually it happens not only in expansion demos but in my own projects too. In my case number of affected projects depends on system version. With 1.4.3 and 1.4.4 it stumbles in perhaps 5-6 projects, with 1.4.0.3 only in 3 approximately and also its is kind of less pronounced i would say. Unfortunately tech support guys told me they cant reproduce this issue.

    But i suspect this issue is not specifically connected with faulty M+ unit but its a system bug and so it should be much more widespread, can anybody else confirm having similar playback stumbling?


    Yes. It's even worst than what you describe, simply pressing play and then stop triggers a glitchy click 90% of the time regardless of what Scene I am in.

    Same here, first pressing of 'Stop' produces very annoying click. But only first, no clicks on stop after that in same project. So in general issue looks like something in M+ system isn`t properly inititalized (precalculated, cached) during project loading phase and during system booting up.

  • benMaj7
    benMaj7 Member Posts: 14 Member

    Yes, I see your point. More than you know being an embedded systems developer in my work-life 😑

    But as I have mentioned, it was the second unit I have received and there have been several "glitches" and crashes and stuff I would expect to be gone with so many units in the field and at this development stage. I prefer to wait instead of regretting having kept a somewhat "unfinished" device.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,689 mod

    @benMaj7 Oh, lol... Well.... since that's your job I guess issues will trigger you more than most folks, totally understandable. Maybe in 2 years or so you can try again, I doubt the M+ will significantly change tho.

  • DJ BREEZE
    DJ BREEZE Member Posts: 9 Newcomer
    edited December 2022

    Hello Everyone out there in Maschine+ land...Yes I too Have the Static issues....and I just bought mine 2 weeks ago.. when I heard that static for the first time my ears stood straight up like "scooby" (ruh ro). I too am wondering should I return it and Get an Mk3... then I can at least run Massive X...Incase anyone doesn't already know...

    You can not Run Massive X on M+....Bummer I Love The sounds In Massive X

    Back to the static for a moment...I noticed That I was getting the same static When using the maschine editing

    software...when that happens I have to open Preferences go to Audio tab and click Maschine 2 tag in audio source.. 2 times and static goes away...you may be using a different audio source i.e. your pc soundcard etc.

    as if there is a bad connection. I was getting static from speakers and headphone jack... with all the money I put into my studio and into the Maschine+ I lost My mind hearing that static..

  • DJ BREEZE
    DJ BREEZE Member Posts: 9 Newcomer

    Hello DJ Breeze here again Don't want to have a book long post so make a few short ones...

    So what made me say ill keep it a bit longer is ...I have a very good ear for mi-nute sound..like a hearing test..

    so when I am in the pc in controller mode. the only thing you can do is switch back to standalone mode. I close out the software then listen very closely thru the headphones as the switch is made is made and you will hear the static start and then go away...if you have preety good hearing you will hear a light white noise fade into pure silence...espesially if you use isolation headphones like do... that's how I discovered this...I was frustrated had my headphones one listening to static track stopped it just sat ther and noticed the complete silence come into my headphones.....I pressed play again and it was bumpin that $1,300 sound again.. Crazy....raise your right hand when you hear a beep...remember that a

    in grammar school...LMAO

  • DJ BREEZE
    DJ BREEZE Member Posts: 9 Newcomer

    DJ Breeze Fellow M+ Users..

    Is anyone out there having saving issues? I have been putting in some long hours to learn My Maschine +

    Churning out some really good tracks with potential..

    Only to Switch over to the maschine software to work on a few things and go back to stand alone and my 4hour session is gone. this only had to happen 3 times before I took production to a complete halt until i get some answers...that a lie I can't stop making music...Yes this problem Can easily fixed by recording straight into my DAW. But I did happily spend $1,200 on Mine so I could Specifically Work outside My DAW.

    I am feeling defective unit ...but could be update related..

  • fabio machado van zeller
    fabio machado van zeller Member Posts: 8 Member

    Regarding the crackling noises: This is happens in a lot of situations. To my use the most debilitating example of this is when using the "Audio" plugin. We use this plugin whenever you want to have a audio track locked in tempo and optionally, pitch. If you want to make some use of the audio plugin - say making the tracks in some other daw and use them in Maschine standalone - you are very, very limited IF you don\t want to hear those annoying crackling when restarting play back or changing scenes. WHen i say very, very limited i mean it. For you maschine plus users try the following:

    1 - Start a blank project;

    2- Add a audio plugin to one "Sound" of the first "Group", change the the stretch algorithm to stretch - this one is the one that mantains the pitch when you timestretch, but its not the heaviest on your cpu;

    3 - load a one or two bar loop on that sound.

    3 - Press restart play. When you do that you hear the looped sampled playing normally, as it should, no wanted artifacts. Press a few more times to recheck.

    4 - Duplicate the sound one more time and press restart again, After a few times you will hear that crackling noise. Annoying.

    You might think that this is me being picky (why the hell do you want to press restart when i track is playing), but very often if i am jamming, i might want to change a scene before time and i use restart for that. Also, if the project gets heavier this audio files will contribute heavily to referred glitches when changing scenes, tweaking knobs, reading automation, etc.

    So with a problem it can also comes a solution. If you can avoid using timestretched samples , specially with a locked pitched algorithm, you might be able to eliminate those glitches in a somewhat glitchy project- use the ptich algorithm (but be aware that if you change the speed of the project you will change the pitch, which is really bad if you want to beat match 2 projects/ groups from different projects with diferent tempos), or even better, the "sample" machine, if you dont want to time stretch.

    I have very cpu efective projects and i only use 1, max two stretched samples.

    But this severely limits the potential of the M+ as a potential live machine. Im sure there will be a ton of users that would love to use the M+ as a live machine and live remixer. This users will have trouble doing this if they use just a few stems.

    Solution/whish:

    What about the Team in Native instruments design a specific M+ timestretching algorithm, where you can lock the pitch, and its optimized for the M+ weaker cpu?

    Then, millions of us might see "Fred again" using the M+ live on the boiler room without being connected to a computer. ;)


    Im writing this here because i think is relevant, but i will also create a new post for this specific issue and feature wish.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 555 Guru

    You are doubleposting (opened a new thread with this same exact post), and again, I am unable to reproduce your issue

  • Andy Wt
    Andy Wt Member Posts: 61 Helper

    Just one more case of clicks on play/stop:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjC6J1oGUng&t=1277s

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