Flexible Beatgrids & Real-time Stems - hurry up!

As teased in the new Serato videos last few days, new Serato update brings real-time stems. They already have flexible beatgrids.

We are, once again, last... I know they are on the roadmap and I'm thankful for that kind of transparency for the first time, but that "in research" should become "we are proud to announce" as soon as possible, before the year ends hopefully. Traktor user base is more than electronic music DJs.



  • leesinthemix
    leesinthemix Member Posts: 228 Guru

    I am pretty confident we will get far superior stem separation than Serato, considering NI can lean on iZotope algorithms for the features.

    Trust the process my man.

  • leesinthemix
    leesinthemix Member Posts: 228 Guru
  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 531 Guru
    edited October 2022

    Ah, so that's what it's all about...

    They took their time. Atomix and Algoriddim gave us stems over two years ago.

    EDIT: Downloaded the public beta of Serato 3 and to my ears the stems separation isn't that much different to VDJ. Of course the Serato fans are all saying it's better, but MRDA.

  • Owner
    Owner Member Posts: 243 Pro
    edited October 2022

    we can probably wait and see until we have something usable in our hands.

    with my macbook pro 2015, 3.1 GHz i7 with 16 GB DDR 3 Ram, I have no chance to spontaneously use real time stems live and in front of an audience. at least not until today. neither with algroriddim nor with vdj. my laptop gets extremely hot and the fans spin at maximum, the cpu load is too high to still have a decent latency when playing with dvs. it jerks and jumps and unintentionally changes the tempo. This is unfortunately the case with algoriddim in particular. I tested serato today and it seemed like it was causing the same problems. in addition, the waveforms are now jerky even more than before. so for many it is simply unusable, in addition to the bad sound quality in my opinion. even with well-mastered .wav or .aiff files.

    the video by mojaxx on beatsource tech also addresses the high cpu usage and the enormous space consumption on the storage medium. I currently see a slight advantage in serato over algoriddim, I just can't judge vdj, I've played with it the least until now. since serato saves the file, you will probably have to complain about less cpu utilization over time, which could bring a performance boost.

    the main thing what i want to get at with my post: traktor would have had a huge head start for years. as is so often the case after the introduction of a new function, no further development has taken place. the stem decks are still highly underrated, but unfortunately they never made more of them and stopped. the in-house stem creator hasn't received much maintenance either and lately the forum entries with complaints about the poor sound quality and other problems with it have piled up. also stagnated e.g. x trax stems lately. my only hope now lies with izotope that traktor will finally go one step further. can you get the problem with the high cpu utilization under control? how is the data stored? does the sound quality compress? can I also prepare offline and then use it better live? etc.

    if you want to get an idea of ​​it, you are welcome to check out the review from beatsource tech on youtube:



    edit: everything i describe in this post regarding performance is based on my experience with my older macbook pro. the performance on an apple silicon M1 or M2 computer will probably be more than sufficient to incorporate live stems into your sets without any problems and the sound quality should also be considerably better.

  • Scratch-E Con
    Scratch-E Con Member Posts: 82 Advisor

    I tested the Serato Beta last night. Pretty awesome.

  • leesinthemix
    leesinthemix Member Posts: 228 Guru
    edited October 2022

    I disagree...

    Serato's separation of Drums sounds pretty incredible IMO and way superior to VDJ.

    Also 'Drums+Vocal' sounds clean and full. They really took their time and it shows. Ofc there will be subtle changes from track to track, but every track I loaded into the beta sounded awesome. VDJ and Algo left in the dust.

    The Pad FX is also really, really cool.

    Hope to see some macro FX come to Traktor+iZotope in the future. Huge potential!

  • Tellmeaboutit123
    Tellmeaboutit123 Member Posts: 493 Guru

    I reckon Traktor will nail it too.

  • Scratch-E Con
    Scratch-E Con Member Posts: 82 Advisor

    I hope, let's see. One advantage for Serato: it is included in their 'Base' function where as in Traktor you are gonna have to pay..

  • D2Lover
    D2Lover Member Posts: 42 Helper

    I'm absolutley trusting the process in an Arteta way 😎

  • un_is_req
    un_is_req Member Posts: 7 Member

    If the Reloop MIXON 8 hits the market before Traktor gets it together I'm putting my s4mk3 on eBay. Lovely hardware, but not much use tied to software that won't even run natively on my M1.

  • un_is_req
    un_is_req Member Posts: 7 Member

    also, izotope uses the Spleeter model, as does Serato. the ai bits won't be any better/worse, it's the same underlying training set. you can do some tweaks on top, but Spleeter isn't even the most performant model now, there's better stuff in recent research papers.

  • Patch
    Patch Member Posts: 191 Advisor

    Are you sure serato uses Spleeter? It definitely sounds better in Serato than in Spleeter to me.

    Im very interested to see how Traktor will implement stems. They’ve got access to Izotope, which is potentially better than Spleeter, but, to my ears, DEMUCS is the best separation Algo out there right now.

    And, it’s free and open source. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

  • un_is_req
    un_is_req Member Posts: 7 Member

    I was listening to some comparisons between VDJ and Serato. I think there is a difference, but to my ears it sounds like Serato is doing the same separation steps, but then doing some extra EQing and shaping. Which is smart.

  • Stevan
    Stevan Member Posts: 1,274 Expert

    Sounds like some sort of compression is going on that Drum channel.

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