Native Access 2 will not download any of the softeware included with my S88 Mk3
Apologies if this is in the wrong place. Your forum structure is opaque and confusing.
Windows 11 24H2, AMD 5800X 64Gb studio computer networked via OneDrive to 4 computers in my home.
I have just taken delivery of a new S88 Mk 3, with Komplete Kontrol Standard. I have Studio One 7 Pro Plus, so I already have Native Access 2 and a number of instruments that are included with that package. These all installed perfectly via MyPreSonus.
I have connected the S88 and registered it via Native Access. It now invites me to download the software, but immediately tells me the download has failed and asks me to check the Download/Application/Content locations. Whatever I do with these makes no difference, whether default or custom locations - I would prefer to keep the content out of any location picked up by OneDrive as it simply fills up the storage on that and makes it very slow to use as it has to download from the cloud each time I select a new instrument - I've already suffered from (and cured) this with Studio One.
I note that several other people have suffered similarly, though I cannot find a solution for Windows. Why does NI make it so difficult? No other software from any source has presented me such crazy obstacles!
Best Answers
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OK! I think I can report a resolution!
I was under the impression that my 2015 MacBook Pro was too old and cranky to be compatible with this process, but I thought I'd give it a try. It took a bit of a while, once I'd downloaded and installed everything and fired up the updater. Nothing happened for a good while, but all of a sudden the keyboard unfroze, lights came on, and it appeared to be all well!
I've now disconnected the S88 from the Mac and reconnected to the PC. The updater on there agreed that, yes indeed, it's now on 1.8.7 and it appears to be talking to Kontakt (though I can't get any sound out of that, but I'll work that out!).
Why NI can't get its devices to play nicely with Windows is a bit concerning when every other piece of hardware I have in the studio manages to behave, but at least I now know that - for the moment at least - my old MBP still has a role in my studio!
Thanks for bearing with me. Sadly, I doubt this topic will have added constructively to the NI/Windows knowledgebase as in the end I couldn't sort it out on Windows. But I do hope NI look carefully at what they're doing, and maybe lean over and crib from someone else who has actually got it right (like Nektar, or Arturia, or Akai or, well, lots of people).
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and followed a number of procedures to try and get the keyboard and computer talking to each other. I don't possess a powered USB C hub, but I do possess several alternative PCs
←—SNIP—→
This is a fairly recent USB C-only device, fully up to date (Windows 11 Home 24H2 build 26100.3194). I could get a 'USB connected' tone, and I could see Kontrol S88 MK3 DFU in Device Manager (Other Devices) but no driver is installed and the 'update driver' process fails to find any Native Instruments drivers on the computer - the same is also true on the big studio computer. The Kontrol Updater can't see the keyboard at all, so won't even start the process of updating.
Yes , as I wrote then there were nothing that I could suggest that I could guarantee would work since it appear to all be depending on the specifics of what people are having.
OK! I think I can report a resolution!
That's really great news. Congratulations on that 😀
In case that you need to setup on another computer also then here is a link for the : How Can I Use My Kontrol S-Series MK3 on a Different Computer?
Hope that your ride will become a bit smoother in the future and that you will get to find joy and satisfaction with your N.I. acquisitions 🙂
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Answers
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IF you are trying to download very large libraries, be sure that the disk where you want to download them (specially if you also install them in the same disk) has a lot of space (more than twice the dimensions of the library). When they download, they need the space for the installation file AND the space for the final installed library (the installation files will be erased only after the installations end).
Unluckily, this is not the only reason for downloads to fail…sometimes Native Access has its own issues too… I’ll post at the end a link to NI support page with all the articles about download failing (I don’t know exactly which one to link for you…you must check what is your case…)
Another thing I would do is check the folder where downloads go to… if a corrupted file remained there, all ulterior downloads attempts will fail. In case, delete the (corrupted) file that is left there before trying a new download
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/search?utf8=✓&query=Download+failed
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I would prefer to keep the content out of any location picked up by OneDrive as it simply fills up the storage on that and makes it very slow to use as it has to download from the cloud each time I select a new instrument - I've already suffered from (and cured) this with Studio One.
Please do not use cloud drives or folders synced with cloud drives since that can give problems.
so I already have Native Access 2 and a number of instruments that are included with that package. These all installed perfectly via MyPreSonus.
I have connected the S88 and registered it via Native Access. It now invites me to download the software, but immediately tells me the download has failed and asks me to check the Download/Application/Content locations. Whatever I do with these makes no difference, whether default or custom locations - I
These two statements are in conflict. What do you already have installed via N.A. 2 and what can you not download ? What software is the S88 MK3 inviting you to download ? Are you referring to the setup of the keyboard itself ? screenshots of any errors please.
Be sure to be using latest version of Native Access for your OS
Do you have the NI Hardware Connection Service installed?
Howto set up your Kontrol S-Series MK3
Kontrol S-Series MK3 Troubleshooting Guide
Kontrol S-Series MK3: Troubleshooting Firmware Update Issues (appropriate trouble shooter even if not at firmware update step)
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The two statements are not in conflict.
Native Access 2 is already installed as a result of previous purchases. I'm not going to list them further than I have already. When I connect the keyboard (I note you don't even include a USB lead in the box, unlike almost every other equipment supplier of any kind) using both a USB C data lead and a 45W USB C power supply, the keyboard prompts me to register in Native Access. That process completed, NA informs me that I have a whole load of software to download (as expected, as I bought Komplete Kontrol Standard with the keyboard, but also - and most importantly - the Hardware Connection Service) but [i]immediately, with no action from me[/i] throws up a pop-up saying the download has failed and to check the download locations - which are all set at default. Note that the default content location is one which is, by default, synced with OneDrive. If you don't want users to use cloud-synced storage locations, don't specify them in your installation defaults!!
I have now discovered that running NA in Admin mode (it was set to run in Admin mode natively, but apparently that's not enough!) will at least allow me to download the Hardware Connection Service, from where, hopefully, I could update the keyboard firmware and check that it works .
But no! Apparently,to complete a firmware update, the S88 Mk 3 wants exclusive access to the USB bus on the computer, and for every other USB device to be disconnected from the computer (per Reddit). It also (per NI's troubleshooter) needs to be connected to the computer via a powered USB hub, and not directly to the computer. Why, FFS?
At the moment I have a bricked keyboard which began a firmware update then gave up. No matter how many times I power it down and back up, restart the computer, the retry the firmware update, I cannot get the process to complete. A big red box in the firmware update program window (itself a delightful refugee from Windows 95) tells me it's failed, and to disconnect everything, power it all down and try again. This quickly gets very old and boring on the fifth attempt.
I have never, ever encountered a firmware/software installation process which is so obstructive, frustrating and pointlessly annoying. I am ready to throw the whole damn lot out of the window.
I'm going to watch the Rugby. Hopefully the Italians will destroy the French. I can at least take out my frustrations shouting at the TV.
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I'm not - yet - trying to download any libraries whatsoever. I am simply trying to get the keyboard to work. However, I have around 7Tb storage on this computer of which about 5Tb is, as yet, unused. That should be sufficient for anything NI is prepared to give me if I pass its convoluted initiation procedures!
None of the existing NI content, received via the PreSonus Stdio One 7 Pro Plus package, is corrupted. Nor is any of my other content. Indeed, only yesterday I installed several Blueprint libraries in Access with no issues whatsoever.
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PoorFellow, apologies - I assumed from the tone of your reply that you were from NI. I now see that is not so - please forgive me letting my frustrations show! I do appreciate you trying to help.
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Ok, no progress.
Device Manager does not show the keyboard attached at all (see the photo of my Device Manager alongside the NI Product Support page), and the keyboard appears to be crashing Device Manager - I get repeated USB 'disconnection' tones, all of the content in Device Manager disappears for a second or two, it reloads, and the process is repeated. Any attempt to update the firmware using the NI update app fails. The keyboard screen immediately shows 'Looks like something went wrong. Please re-run the update on your computer. Get help at ni.de/kontrol-help'. There is no boot-up routine or lights test.
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thank you , yes I am not a N.I. employee , also it's Sunday and N.I. Customer Care does not work the forum Sundays either.
Note that the default content location is one which is, by default, synced with OneDrive. If you don't want users to use cloud-synced storage locations, don't specify them in your installation defaults!!
I have now discovered that running NA in Admin mode (it was set to run in Admin mode natively, but apparently that's not enough!) will at least allow me to download the Hardware Connection Service, from where, hopefully, I could update the keyboard firmware and check that it works .
But no! Apparently,to complete a firmware update, the S88 Mk 3 wants exclusive access to the USB bus on the computer, and for every other USB device to be disconnected from the computer (per Reddit). It also (per NI's troubleshooter) needs to be connected to the computer via a powered USB hub, and not directly to the computer. Why, FFS?
I am not responsible for any of this and I can only do my best to advice.
As for OneDrive and defaults path then I can only advice that you do not use any folders that are synced with cloud drives , e.g. set Download folder to it's own folder and then set content destination to it's own also and then leave all app and plugin installation paths to the default.. And yes , running N.A. as an Admin sometimes helps in case of problems.
As far as I know then the keyboard should come with a cable for connecting with the computer however then the keyboard does not come with a PSU nor with a PSU connection cable. This is particularly problematic in the case of the S88 MK3 since that most likely will need a PSU to be able to be updated.
Also it has been discovered that there is a problem with the USB-C on some computers which affects the functionality of the connection to the S-Series MK3 keyboards , a problem which as far as I know impacts not only N.I. products but is a general problem : Quote Matthew_NI , December 10 , 2024 :
Problem:
Some computer chip sets made between 2020 and 2023 have a known USB-C error that can't be fixed. This can cause sporadic problems with USB-C peripherals like the Kontrol S MK3, including connection failures, freezing, or issues with firmware updates. It may appear that certain cables work and others do not,but this is a red herring.Solution:
If you experience these issues, try using a USB-C hub between your Kontrol S MK3 and your computer. This can help avoid the problem and ensure a stable connection. This is critically important during firmware updates, as data loss could cause broken firmware. Make sure the hub supports both power and data transfer.the S88 Mk 3 wants exclusive access to the USB bus on the computer, and for every other USB device to be disconnected from the computer (per Reddit).
I am not entirely sure about this and that might depend on more factors , however it is important to understand that part of this is also about power and power requirements and while some people might think that you can just keep attaching units to the USB then that might also depend on the power draw. Not being a N.I. employee then I have no insider info on the design decisions but I believe myself that part of the reason why the Mk3 were designed for USB-C (while in fact technically only using USB 2) is because of that the USB standards that typically use the USB-C computer port is certified to be able to deliver more power than e.g. the older USB standards that uses USB A port (e.g. USB 2). But apparently then in many cases then the S-Series keyboards still needs both an USB-C to USB-A port adapter data cable and a PD able USB-C PSU with a PD able cable OR sometimes both an USB-C hub and the PD ready PSU OR a self powered PD ready USB-C hub with cables capable of both power and data transmission.
Most people will maybe say that the issue is all more simple and that you just need this or that but I have seen so many reports with conflicting information due to minor differences in peoples cables or computers so that it's somewhere difficult to impossible to give a %100 guarantee that this or that will work. I personally believe that you will get farthest by using quality cables. Also N.I. do not give any sort of public recommendation with respect to using cables or hubs of this or that make.
All in all then all I can do for you is to point to existing information as I did in my initial post to you and also point you to some discussions on the topics if need be.
Of course , and this is important to understand , N.I. stand by it's products so if you need any keyboard setup help then you can always contact N.I. Komplete Kontrol Support or N.I. Hardware Support and ask for advice and guidance. and for general Native Access and installation support then you can contact N.I. Native Access and Installation Support .
In case that you need guidance contacting support : Please read : how to get support !
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Hi again. Firstly, I have raised a support ticket - and did so fairly early in this process. I obviously want an answer from the horse's mouth ideally, though as a very long-term computer user (45+ years), I'm well aware that forums can often be a better source of expertise than manufacturers…
As for your specific suggestions, I've done quite a lot more reading this evening (much of it extremely depressing) and followed a number of procedures to try and get the keyboard and computer talking to each other. I don't possess a powered USB C hub, but I do possess several alternative PCs (sadly my one and only Mac is too old to be helpful). As it was easiest, I brought my Dell XPS laptop to the studio to try with that. This is a fairly recent USB C-only device, fully up to date (Windows 11 Home 24H2 build 26100.3194). I could get a 'USB connected' tone, and I could see Kontrol S88 MK3 DFU in Device Manager (Other Devices) but no driver is installed and the 'update driver' process fails to find any Native Instruments drivers on the computer - the same is also true on the big studio computer. The Kontrol Updater can't see the keyboard at all, so won't even start the process of updating.
With so many computers in the household, I also have a huge variety of cables available, In the studio I try only to have high-quality data cables, but I've tried several of any provenance! I've run out of options and ideas now, so all I can do is wait and see if NI can shed any light on the issue.
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Incidentally, throughout this the keyboard has been powered by a Dell 45W PSU, which is more than sufficient to satisfy the keyboard's needs.
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OK! I think I can report a resolution!
I was under the impression that my 2015 MacBook Pro was too old and cranky to be compatible with this process, but I thought I'd give it a try. It took a bit of a while, once I'd downloaded and installed everything and fired up the updater. Nothing happened for a good while, but all of a sudden the keyboard unfroze, lights came on, and it appeared to be all well!
I've now disconnected the S88 from the Mac and reconnected to the PC. The updater on there agreed that, yes indeed, it's now on 1.8.7 and it appears to be talking to Kontakt (though I can't get any sound out of that, but I'll work that out!).
Why NI can't get its devices to play nicely with Windows is a bit concerning when every other piece of hardware I have in the studio manages to behave, but at least I now know that - for the moment at least - my old MBP still has a role in my studio!
Thanks for bearing with me. Sadly, I doubt this topic will have added constructively to the NI/Windows knowledgebase as in the end I couldn't sort it out on Windows. But I do hope NI look carefully at what they're doing, and maybe lean over and crib from someone else who has actually got it right (like Nektar, or Arturia, or Akai or, well, lots of people).
2 -
and followed a number of procedures to try and get the keyboard and computer talking to each other. I don't possess a powered USB C hub, but I do possess several alternative PCs
←—SNIP—→
This is a fairly recent USB C-only device, fully up to date (Windows 11 Home 24H2 build 26100.3194). I could get a 'USB connected' tone, and I could see Kontrol S88 MK3 DFU in Device Manager (Other Devices) but no driver is installed and the 'update driver' process fails to find any Native Instruments drivers on the computer - the same is also true on the big studio computer. The Kontrol Updater can't see the keyboard at all, so won't even start the process of updating.
Yes , as I wrote then there were nothing that I could suggest that I could guarantee would work since it appear to all be depending on the specifics of what people are having.
OK! I think I can report a resolution!
That's really great news. Congratulations on that 😀
In case that you need to setup on another computer also then here is a link for the : How Can I Use My Kontrol S-Series MK3 on a Different Computer?
Hope that your ride will become a bit smoother in the future and that you will get to find joy and satisfaction with your N.I. acquisitions 🙂
1
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