Apple Silicon M2 came

Kubrak Member Posts: 2,464 Expert
edited June 2022 in Tech Talks

Changes comparing to M1 are as rumous expected.....

The same amount of CPU cores and small uplift in CPU performance. My guess is that it is mainly by using higher CPU clock and just slightly by CPU architecture improvement. (My guess is based on the performance vs. power draw graphs for M1 and M2.) So, most CPU improvement is due to movement to 5 nm advanced process of TSCM, not due to Apple's desing improvements....

Apple has focused on GPU power improvement and AI improvement. Also faster RAM is used which helps mainly GPU performance and probably also AI performance...

Comparing M2 and Intel is funny. Comparison of M2 with AMD CPUs would not be so chocking... ;-)

There will come AMD Zen 4 CPUs in few months. They are on similar (5 nm) process like M2, so comparison will be more fair than M1 (5 nm) vs. Zen3 (7 nm)...

Lets wait.... AMD CPUs will draw more power than M2, but for sure not 4x more like Intel in Apple marketing presentation.... ;-) (Current AMD models draw twice more than M1, or so...)



  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 472 Pro

    Come back in these few months and talk about that present. Users will get full M2 computer with optimized OS for these chips in less than a month

    These are facts. Over them software developers can build apps. It’s called trust and it’s the opposite of wishful thinking.

    The Clock is running…

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,464 Expert
    edited June 2022

    Yes M2 computers will come in a month, Zen4 in few months. Then we may compare.

    Comparing M2 to hungry Intels is just marketing trick to fool users. Comparing even to current AMD Zen3+ would give rather different picture.... And it is on 6nm process, not improved 5nm like M2....

    It is very sad Apple has to compare their products to inferior x86 product instead of superior one. It indicates Apple is not able to bring APU that is way superior than x86 platform.

    And fooling its consumers is not just laughtable, it is also asking for lawsuit....

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 472 Pro
    edited June 2022

    Don’t get mad and just came again when all these marvels become a reality instead a dream… ;-)

    Meanwhile stop focusing yourself on benchmarks and try to understand why OS is so important for present and future. Maybe you will avoid a lot of pain and discussion…

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 178 Pro

    And what is the practical implication of your musings here, my PC friend? 😉

  • olafmol
    olafmol Member Posts: 124 Pro

    First we need full VST3 support, which was only announced 16 years ago in 2008 ;P

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,464 Expert

    @Maciej Repetowski

    And what is the practical implication of your musings here, my PC friend? 

    That Apple CPU development seems to develop as I feared. After AS mess, there will be another in foreseen future. Rosetta 3 and what it will bring... Again.

    Believe it or not, I am fed up of continuous screaming of AS users that they need this or that. And the artificial hype how great AS is comparing to x86.

    So I ballance this pure madness. ;-) AS is OK CPU, but it seems to develop slower than AMD CPUs. If it stays like that, in few years AS will not be OK CPU...

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 178 Pro
    edited June 2022

    It’s a CPU platform change, you call it madness…

    M2, M3 and so on are (and will be) compatible with M1. NI needs to rewrite the software just once for new architecture.

    M2 is being compared to Intel because all previous Macs were on Intel. If they were on AMD, the comparison would be with AMD, simples.

    You talk about madness. What about MS requirement to have online account with them to even install Windows (this is coming soon)? What about MS telling all OEMs that new PCs HAVE to come with SSD (this is coming even sooner)? What about MS manufacturing ARM Win development kits for all who want them? Do you call this madness too?

    This is not madness, this is Sparta 🤣

    You will see in a few years what MS and Qualcomm are cooking and this is not something X86 fans will be happy about.

    Some AMD and Intel processors are faster than M1/M2 chips. Using more energy but faster. Nvidia graphics is better than AMD and their top tier GPU cards are faster than M1 Ultra. All true. What does this change for me as a Mac user? Should this make me switch to PC or something like that? Is that how you think it works?

    M1 Max has nearly double single core performance in comparison with my Intel Mac Mini i7 and more than double multi core performance. That’s what matters to Mac users, not that some PC systems are faster than Macs.

    AMD or Intel, I honestly don’t care. If it doesn’t run OS X - it is worthless to me.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,464 Expert

    No, Apple presents their "comparisons" as Mac vs. PC top platform, not as Mac vs. Intel. (And in small, almost invisible letters there is written Intel...).

    Intels are hungry because of Intel's long term technological problems with 10nm node. And also because of Intel's long term "4 cores will do forever"... And Intel's iGPU delivers worse against AMD's than against M2's. In other words, if Apple had made iGPU comparison vs. AMD notebook CPU, M2 would be worse.

    There are already ARM Win for many years.... I guess, most producers will not switch to ARM based Win as there is no real need for except for telephones/wearables/tablets. And those are mainly on android, if not Apple.

    My point about rather slow progress of AS comparing to x86 is that now AS is competetive to x86 concerning CPU/GPU performance. And if manufactured on comparable node to AS, AMD is similarly power effective like AS. But every generation it will be one, two steps more behind. If that keeps on in five, six years Apple will have to do something about the gap.

    You are right, MS is more and more like Apple. In the worst case one may switch to Linux.... But I still use Win7 that are few years AOL, and Win XP that are AOL even longer. And one can survive on Win10 for next five to ten years. No need to go for Win11. Pretty good backward compatibility is maintained on Win systems...

  • nightjar
    nightjar Member Posts: 870 Guru

    I think Apple will keep pushing the envelope in ways that keep others (AMD, Qualcomm) behind in ways that can only be achieved when you determine the paths of BOTH an OS and the silicon.

    And even though this first M2 is 5 nano... the word is out that the M2 Pro (and M2 Max & Ultra) will make the jump to 3 nano THIS FALL.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,464 Expert

    Yes, rumours are that M2 Pro/Max/Ultra will be on 3 nm node. That node is at least twice as expensive than 5 nm one. x86 users would not be willing to pay that money for CPU... Apple users do not mind.

    Zen5 that will come probably at 2023/24 will be partialy on 3 nm node.

    The node used is more question of money than technological advancement. Neither Apple, nor AMD develops that technology. It is TSCM. And few others. Intel's recent and current problems are due to severe problems with development of own 10 nm node....

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