Kontrol S88 MK3 - Transport Controls sending unwanted CC messages

horseofcourse

Hello, I am running into an issue where my S88 mk3 is sending CC messages when using the keyboard's transport controls (ex. METRO button sends CC 23 with a value of 1, PLAY sends CC 16, STOP sends CC 20).

This is causing issues on virtual instruments tracks where the loaded instruments respond to those CCs. I have tried disabling 'KONTROL S88 MK3 DAW' port as an available port on tracks, but to no avail. The messages still come through.

Additionally, there is no way to specify which messages are sent by these buttons in the template editor. I'm at a loss here… does anyone have an ideas what is going on, or how to fix this issue? Thanks

horseofcourse

Just a note to add that I'm seeing different CCs transmitted by the same buttons in different DAWs. For example, in Ableton Live, STOP is sending CC 123. This leads me to believe that maybe the control surface scripts are still buggy and in need of refinement. Would love to hear any other ideas though!

DunedinDragon

From Wikipedia:

MIDI Machine Control

, or MMC, a subset of the MIDI specification, provides specific commands for controlling recording equipment such as multi-track recorders. MMC messages can be sent along a standard MIDI cable for remote control of such functions as Play, Fast Forward, Rewind, Stop, Pause, and Record. These are "System Exclusive" (SysEx) messages, specifically Real Time Universal SysEx messages.

In essence they're defined separately from standard MIDI PC and CC interactions and can be different on different DAWs. I think this would be a much more broadly noticeable problem if the control surface scripts were not correct. I've never encountered any issue with my S88MK3 controlling my Ableton Live 11 Standard or interfering with my other standard MIDI interactions with my plugins and it's been in constant daily use since January of this year.

horseofcourse

Thanks for your reply, and I'm glad this hasn't been an issue for you.

Here's an example of a big issue that's impacting me, and what prompted this topic: I just started using the VSL Synchron Prime orchestral library. It's great, in part because it's a very streamlined experience. One of the features that makes this library super streamlined is that the control parameters are permanently assigned. In this library, the 'release' parameter is assigned to CC20, which is what the S88 MK3 sends (with a value of 1) when I press the metronome key. So, whenever I activate the metronome (which is something I do frequently), any notes playing on that track will suddenly sound terrible.

I suppose I can just use the qwerty keyboard and avoid using the button on the S88, but that seems like a pretty silly solution.

At any rate, since the transport buttons cannot be defined in a user template, the messages being transmitted by them should definitely be contained to the 'DAW' port. I found that even after disabling all the other MK3 MIDI ports (Main, MIDI 2.0, Ext), those CCs still came through. That definitely seems like buggy behavior to me..

horseofcourse

I'm wondering if any Cubase users out there can verify this behavior: do you see the following CC messages when you press transport buttons on your MK3?

METRO = CC23

PLAY = CC16

STOP = CC20

Coming up on 2 weeks and so far NI support has been zero help with this.

Jeremy_NI

Hey @horseofcourse I can reproduce the issue with MIDI monitor, with Cubase, Ableton. It seems that the buttons emit some MIDI CC information on MIDI channel 16. I do not remember seeing these MIDI messages in the past. Out of curiosity I also tried with a MK2 keyboard and the same thing is happening. I also tried with a Novation keyboard and I can also reproduce the issue. I'm starting to think that maybe Apple changed something in how MIDI is handled. I've reached out to the Komplete Kontrol devs to try to get some light on this.

In the meantime, if thse are affecting other MIDI devices or software instruments, I would recommend to look for a way to filter out any MIDI message coming on channel 16.

horseofcourse

Really appreciate that, Jeremy! Thank you. Interesting findings. For whatever help it may be for your devs, all of the messages I have been seeing are coming through on channel 1. I am running Cubase 13 and Ableton 12.1 on macOS 15.1

I will filter for the time being, but hopefully the devs can find a way to stop these messages from coming through.

EleeTadpole

I'm having the same issue through channel 1 as well. Using Cubase 12, and an S88 MK2.