I've seen a few KK S series MK2 owners are having problems getting KK software recognising the keyboard after updating to 3.3.0.
Is there any real benefit in updating as a MK2 user or should I stay on 2.9.6?
It's up to you.
Check the release notes in NA2 since 2.9.6 - there have been a ton of stability fixes and improvements (ironic, given that some users of 3.3 are experiencing and as-yet undiagnosed issue with connection).
Some users choose to stay on 2.9.6 if they prefer the side panel browser vs the overlay browser, or the use of sub banks for user presets for instance, which still have some issues in 3. But otherwise, if you want the rest of what's been added, many used have happily updated.
At least for right now, I'd either install 3.2.1 or nothing, and wait until we confirm tomorrow whatever has been affecting some users this afternoon with 3.3.
Thanks Matt.
The reason I stayed on 2.9.6 is because I don't like the new layout in version 3, if anything I feel it's a step backwards. I was hoping some of it's issues had been addressed in the latest update but if the browser and sub bank layout is the same as 3.2.1 I'll keep using 2.9.6 which is not giving me any noticeable issues with bugs or stability other than I wish it was resizable.
I am thoroughly confused.
Support for a product should start from the moment it stops being offered for sale at full retail price as a brand new item
Support for the product starts when we launch it, and continues after you buy it.
What hardship would it be for NI to actually FULLY support my expensive purchase beyond the launch of it's replacement?
There is no hardship. We already do.
Kontrol S MK2 is fully supported, to this day.
Kontrol S MK2 is fully supported by the very latest version of Komplete Kontrol 3.3.1 and beyond (and of course many older versions if a user actively chooses not to install a more recent version).
Both of the above will continue indefinitely, without any plans to the inverse.
I am simply perplexed at the argument here.
This practice is only reinforcing many people's opinion that NI really don't care about their customers.
What practice? I don't know what people are arguing about, because there appears some meta concern about Kontrol S MK2 being unsupported, which is factually untrue.
Kontrol S MK2 works exactly as well as it did the day you bought it. It is still capable of everything you purchased the product in order to do, and still actively supported and maintained. Being that it's a supported product, that of course includes a commitment to it working on any latest, greatest OS or chipset that gets introduced, which is most commonly when things break.
Kontrol S MK2 users are our single largest cohort of hardware users, period. We continue to support them, and there would be absolutely no reason to stop doing this, which as I am repeatedly trying to convey, we have no plans to stop doing.
I'm not denying anything.
If you read any statement concerning our hardware, it is highly likely I wrote it. I cannot recall every one of my posts here, but it probably read something to the effect of "we have no plans to deliver any further firmware updates to Kontrol S MK2". That is certainly true.
Firmware runs at a very low level on the hardware. It connects physical components to a virtual world, by talking to on-device software. The on-device software in turn talks to desktop software, and thus exists the user experience you get. That there exist no planned firmware updates for MK2 is because there exists no need for any such updates to exist.
You're equating that to a lack of support, but that's simply not the case.
If an OS update (e.g. macOS or Windows) or a chipset migration (e.g. Apple Silicon) causes issues, then we fix those issues. If there's a bug in a supported DAW that surfaces, we fix that too. That has nothing to do with firmware. You will notice that we have introduced support for every operating system since, and also Apple Silicon, without ever needing to update Kontrol S MK2's firmware. A firmware update might be needed if say, we wanted a physical button press to result in a different action to the one it currently results in.
I'll leave this topic to rest with this:
You bought a supported product, that continues to function every bit as well as the day you purchased it.
That product is fully supported by Native Instruments, who have no plans to drop support for that product at this time - which would be particularly ill advised given we have more MK2 users than we do any other piece of hardware.
You are taking a statement (I'm not sure exactly which one) about the fact we intend no further firmware updates to MK2 as a statement it is no longer supported, and will suddenly break and never be fixed, which is again untrue, and perhaps a misunderstanding.
For any who read this far:
Kontrol S MK2 is fully supported. Simple as that.
v2.9.6 WAS the last version to get any fixes and is now officially retired as of Oct 2023.
But - totally useable as long as you OS continues to support it.
As an S61 MKII user - it is mature, stable and reliable - plus has all the functionality that KKv3 does not.
No reason for me to stop running it until that day (which may never come) when V3 finally achieves feature parity with v2.
This latest debacle with KK v3.3.0 was just a hint of what's to come for us MKII users. And enough to show me that staying on V2.9.6 is the smartest play for now.
VP
I would just like to add that I purchased my S 61 MK2 keyboard about 8 months before the MK3 series was announced. This means I've only owned it from new for less than 2 years and I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
In this time NI have announced (1 year ago) that no more firmware updates for the keyboard will be released and now we're told that kk2 will no longer be supported. Just how long will kk3 support my MK2 keyboard before an update stops it working with kk permanently?
Not what I envisaged when I purchased it less than 2 years ago. If this is a sign of how NI treat their customers then I will not be purchasing anymore hardware from them.
If only they had of taken peoples bug reports seriously when VST3 was in Beta and LISTENED to the issues we had, we wouldn't be stuck with a somewhat useless plugin in Ableton Live with half the plugins out there not showing their GUI.
This is why I am noticeably pi$$ed at every decision that is not addressing issues (like the sub bank issue that continues to be a problem in the latest software) and why I have all but given up on beta testing and feedback these days let alone actually investing any further personally into any products (big reason why I support so many 3rd party plugins with NKS now). It's not just about "my personal wishes" as it constantly keeps being implied (that I am sour because my own personal wants aren't addressed), it is an overall lack of care and attention which is shared by many, but as I keep reading, not shared by enough for NI to care since comments such as "we have many users that are happy", and the fact they will drag their feet on accessibility because they aren't the larger user group.
Profits before passion is what it feels like these days.
@Ojustaboo
"Marks concerns appear to be that he’s worried if in the not to distant future, MS or Apple do something to his operating system that causes v2.96 to cease functioning, something which a simple firmware tweak would fix, making his recently purchased S mk2 useless"
Mark's concern is valid - but this is a globally known scenario and cannot be used as a excuse or a concern.
You just said it - if you want to run v2.9.6 - do not touch anything. If you are running a purpose built DAW machine that is used exclusively for your creative process - there is never ANY good reason to run the latest version. Always sit N-1 when it comes to OS versions and stay alert - Regardless of what any OS vendor tells you.
It is too bad Mac folks do not get this concept or memo - but that is par for the course - pretty much every time a new Mac OS comes out - everyone hits Update without a single care in the world and then come here to complain when nothing works.
For us on Windows - we are essentially bulletproof with v2.9.6 now and for the foreseeable future and no - the MKIII keyboards (and latest firmware updates etc last week) did not need anything updated on Windows - it simply just works.
I am still running Windows 10 22H2 here - even on brand new cutting edge 2024 hardware - simply because it does not contain the baggage within Win 11.
I plan to run v2.9.6 right up until NI finally achieves feature parity with KKv3 - but who knows if that will ever happen.
The bottom line is everything ages out - whether we like it or not. It is on us to maintain stability and we own the risk of running something that the vendor has already stated will never see another update.
If Mark is worried about what may happen in the future with v2.9.6 - he should probably just move to KK v3 and let NI take the wheel and stop worrying about this at all.
If only what we thought actually mattered…
I would love to update to fix the problems that they failed to fix in V2 before dumping it, but I have the same issues with V3 as you (and many others), sadly it will likely never improve in that area…
Sub banks are not fixed yet but many users are voicing their need for them
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that KK2 also gets some further bug fixes since it is required for MKI owners and still a preferred version for many MKII users. It really should be counted as an active legacy version rather than a defunct one
I believe that for Native Instruments, customers are not important, they are very inattentive to past generations, and they will never agree with the customer. In this particular case, I think they should really listen to dissatisfied customers. The problem is that money has already entered your bank accounts
My issue surrounding updates to firmware relates mainly due to my concerns that if KK keeps evolving it at some point it might go beyond what this keyboard is capable of without updates to it's firmware. It's not about adding new features it's about future proofing it's ability to function for the job I purchased it to do. Should i as a customer have to already worry about this having only had it from new since 2022?
Your reply pretty much sums it up.
In all the cases you mentioned there is an option to update the firmware using various methods. In this case NI have officially said that further updates to S series MK2 keyboards firmware is never going to be option.
Again, this statement was made less than a year after I purchased mine from new.
Just to be clear, this isn't about a new product being launched so soon after purchasing it's predecessor. I'm more than happy with my purchase so far. My concerns are based on it's longevity and that's all. The software it mostly depends on is another matter entirely.
I enjoy making music very much, nothing will stop that. What I will say though is that I'm transitioning further and further away from my dependency on NI products. It's not just about this issue that I have a problem with. NI simply don't seem to care about what their customers are saying and don't support many of their products nearly as much as they should.
@Mark Oxley
Finally - the confusion has cleared. And it seems I was on the right track.
IMO - This assumption (on your part) - that "support" automatically means ongoing firmware updates - is (unfortunately) false.
As Matthew already stated - "Support" is a ongoing commitment from NI to ensure your board is working on any latest, greatest OS or chipset that gets introduced.
Firmware is hardware level logic and is never exposed to the OS any way - so it would be very rare that meeting this "support" commitment would ever require a firmware update.
The MKII had just two FW updates - ever - like way back at launch and nothing was (or has been) needed since then. The board runs true and the FW is doing it's job.
Now - not 100% ruling it out - but it would be VERY rare to see a FW update now unless a major showstopper hardware level problem suddenly surfaced - which after 6+ years surely would have shown itself by now.
More accurately - this commitment will be met 100% with ongoing updates to Komplete Kontrol.
Glad we finally got it sorted…
If there will be no further updates to it's firmware then it's not fully supported imo.
I respectfully disagree with this , at least to some extend. You can not in earnest expect N.I: to keep updating a firmware if there is no problems of importance with the firmware and if the features that it were supposed to have has been shipped/delivered by N.I.
Matthew_NI writes in the above (emphasis by me) , quote :
To me that is just about as good as it gets.
I think that Matthew_NI also stated on another occasion something like that S-Series MK2 users were the largest customer group when it came to sales of I think software ? (Kontakt libraries, Komplete bundles and stuff like that I suppose) Which supports Matthew_NI's statements in general.
Of course it would be really nice as per (what I think sounds as) your expectation that new features would be forever added to already purchased keyboards. But that is simply not feasible , with the major explanation for that being that it costs resources and that customers will not keep buying the old models anyway if/when competitors makes new models and because N.I. couldn't possibly future proof the old keyboards to be able to support not yet fully developed techs still in the making.
