Any point updating to KK 3.3.0 as a S61 MK2 user?

2

Answers

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,973 Expert

    If only they had of taken peoples bug reports seriously when VST3 was in Beta and LISTENED to the issues we had, we wouldn't be stuck with a somewhat useless plugin in Ableton Live with half the plugins out there not showing their GUI.

    This is why I am noticeably pi$$ed at every decision that is not addressing issues (like the sub bank issue that continues to be a problem in the latest software) and why I have all but given up on beta testing and feedback these days let alone actually investing any further personally into any products (big reason why I support so many 3rd party plugins with NKS now). It's not just about "my personal wishes" as it constantly keeps being implied (that I am sour because my own personal wants aren't addressed), it is an overall lack of care and attention which is shared by many, but as I keep reading, not shared by enough for NI to care since comments such as "we have many users that are happy", and the fact they will drag their feet on accessibility because they aren't the larger user group.

    Profits before passion is what it feels like these days.

  • Cristianruiz1
    Cristianruiz1 Member Posts: 52 Member

    I believe that for Native Instruments, customers are not important, they are very inattentive to past generations, and they will never agree with the customer. In this particular case, I think they should really listen to dissatisfied customers. The problem is that money has already entered your bank accounts

  • Ojustaboo
    Ojustaboo Member Posts: 332 Advisor

    I don’t get this obsession with firmware updates.

    While occasionally some companies might release firmware updates to give the user new features, usually firmware updates are under the cover improvements where the average user wouldn’t see any change.

    For example my motherboard bios which allows for a much faster cpu to be installed than was the case when I purchased it.

    Or my oscilloscope. Where on release they had different models at vastly different prices, you want a particular function that’s not available, send in the cash, you get new firmware and the function you want is unlocked.

    I remember my Roland D70 needing a firmware update due to a midi problem, had to take it to a service centre. Most D70 users probably never noticed a problem.?

    A product that’s been out a few years shouldn’t really need anything done to the firmware, any crippling bug caused by firmware errors, should have been ironed by now.

    When people buy a product that does just what the product advertises it can do, then the company brings out a new product a few months later, I simply don’t get it when someone moans about never using the company again, why aren’t you enjoying making music? What’s stopping you?

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,727 Expert
    edited August 3

    “I don’t get this obsession with firmware updates.”

    Totally agree.

    I think some folks put way too much stock in firmware - which has never (to my knowledge) had anything to do with features.

    Firmware is the base code to run the device - not a monthly bug fix update.

    VP

  • Mark Oxley
    Mark Oxley Member Posts: 332 Pro
    edited August 3

    My issue surrounding updates to firmware relates mainly due to my concerns that if KK keeps evolving it at some point it might go beyond what this keyboard is capable of without updates to it's firmware. It's not about adding new features it's about future proofing it's ability to function for the job I purchased it to do. Should i as a customer have to already worry about this having only had it from new since 2022?

  • Mark Oxley
    Mark Oxley Member Posts: 332 Pro
    edited August 3

    There's a world of difference between a company not choosing to update firmware if it's not needed compared to them officially announcing that there will never be any further updates, needed or not.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,727 Expert
    edited August 3

    Who said I didn’t update? Grabbed the one (and only) firmware update that was available for my new keyboard (as of Nov 2020) and was it - since then.

    And I do not ever remember anyone specifically saying there were no more firmware updates for MKII.

    There were simply no more ever offered because there was no need for any. I have never experienced any operational issues with my S61

    And trying to compare the onboard logic and future plans for KKv3/MKIII with the old onboard logic of MKII is no contest.

    NI was pretty clear back in Fall 2023 that KKv3 would “support” the MKII series but it would never allow for any of the advanced enhancement found in S-Series MKIII.

    This is exactly the reason that KKv3 makes no sense for the MKII. It represents reduced functionality compared with KKv2 so why bother?

    That is the huge difference here.

    VP

  • Mark Oxley
    Mark Oxley Member Posts: 332 Pro
    edited August 3

    Your reply pretty much sums it up.

    In all the cases you mentioned there is an option to update the firmware using various methods. In this case NI have officially said that further updates to S series MK2 keyboards firmware is never going to be option.

    Again, this statement was made less than a year after I purchased mine from new.

    Just to be clear, this isn't about a new product being launched so soon after purchasing it's predecessor. I'm more than happy with my purchase so far. My concerns are based on it's longevity and that's all. The software it mostly depends on is another matter entirely.

    I enjoy making music very much, nothing will stop that. What I will say though is that I'm transitioning further and further away from my dependency on NI products. It's not just about this issue that I have a problem with. NI simply don't seem to care about what their customers are saying and don't support many of their products nearly as much as they should.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,727 Expert

    Did you not know you were buying a keyboard originally launched in 2017 when you bought yours?

    Dont know why you would think you would be still getting firmware updates 5-6 years after this board came out.

    And BTW - there was only ever one update for the MKII that I am aware of.

    And that came out 5 years ago.

    VP

  • Mark Oxley
    Mark Oxley Member Posts: 332 Pro
    edited August 3

    You don't get it do you? I'm not concerned about how many firmware updates it's had since it was launched or how long it had been in production for when I purchased mine. My worry is that I only had it less than 1 year before the announcement was made. Should I care less how long it had been available for when I paid full price for it as the current and latest model in that range?

    Worse case scenario, say in a years time, NI release an update to KK that renders the keyboard unusable with it. Something that may have been fixed with a firmware update. Oh wait, no more updates. You're s#@t out of luck mate, sorry.

    Anyway, shouldn't a products support life span start from when it officially goes to end of sale not when it was first launched?

  • Mark Oxley
    Mark Oxley Member Posts: 332 Pro
    edited August 3

    Just because you didn't see the official statement that there would be no more firmware updates doesn't mean it didn't take place. By all means feel free to research it yourself.

    Yes, for the time being KK 2.9.6 works with the MK2 keyboards but it's no longer supported and is officially EOL. What happens when or if the next OS update stops it working?

    You're not reading what I'm saying or you're just missing the point so it's pretty pointless going backwards and forwards with this conversation.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,727 Expert
    edited August 3

    Mark

    I am reading what you are saying. You and I are in the same boat. We bought a board that is still supported but very long in the tooth.

    Unlike you - I am not expecting anything more from NI for this board nor I am going to complain about it either.

    All I do know is I am staying on KK V2.9.6 - which thankfully will never again be updated. This guarantees a stable environment with no chance of anything getting messed up by a wonky update.

    I also will never install KKv3 until it achieves feature parity with KKv2. If that never happens - again I really do not care.

    I want my board ready to create at all times and KKv2.9.6 does that perfectly.

    Any MKII user should simply save their energy for more important things than worrying about what might or might now happen with their boards. And given the non-stop trouble that the MKIII series is giving that crowd - I am oddly glad I have this board and not the new one.

    VP

  • Hywel
    Hywel Member Posts: 55 Member

    If I may… I will just direct the honorable gentleman to the post by @Matthew_NI immediately before his own…

    Have a good day Kymeia.

  • Ojustaboo
    Ojustaboo Member Posts: 332 Advisor

    I think you are both saying the same thing sort of.

    Marks concerns appear to be that he’s worried if in the not to distant future, MS or Apple do something to his operating system that causes v2.96 to cease functioning, something which a simple firmware tweak would fix, making his recently purchased S mk2 useless.

    OK this leads into a discussion on why upgrade your operating system if everything is working, but there’s many reasons why someone might want to run the latest version.

    Just look at the S mk3 firmware update when it was released, if people wanted to use their new keyboard, they had to make sure their windows were updated to at least version whatever (can’t remember now)

    Personally I think the likelihood of an update stoping v2.96 from working are extremely unlikely. If it did happen. I would expect MS to bring out a patch.

    I bought my Arturia Keylab 61 in January, I love it (goes nicely with my NI S88 mk3), I believe it was released in 2018. There’s quite a few rumours of a mk3 dropping this year. I don’t care, very happy with my mk2. If the mk3 appears and they stop supporting the mk2, I’m happy with what I have. If MS does an update rendering my mk2 useless, MS needs to fix it not Arturia, although, if Arturia knows it’s a simple firmware fix, I would hope in that situation they would do it whether still officially supported or not.

  • Vocalpoint
    Vocalpoint Member Posts: 2,727 Expert
    edited August 6

    @Ojustaboo

    "Marks concerns appear to be that he’s worried if in the not to distant future, MS or Apple do something to his operating system that causes v2.96 to cease functioning, something which a simple firmware tweak would fix, making his recently purchased S mk2 useless"

    Mark's concern is valid - but this is a globally known scenario and cannot be used as a excuse or a concern.

    You just said it - if you want to run v2.9.6 - do not touch anything. If you are running a purpose built DAW machine that is used exclusively for your creative process - there is never ANY good reason to run the latest version. Always sit N-1 when it comes to OS versions and stay alert - Regardless of what any OS vendor tells you.

    It is too bad Mac folks do not get this concept or memo - but that is par for the course - pretty much every time a new Mac OS comes out - everyone hits Update without a single care in the world and then come here to complain when nothing works.

    For us on Windows - we are essentially bulletproof with v2.9.6 now and for the foreseeable future and no - the MKIII keyboards (and latest firmware updates etc last week) did not need anything updated on Windows - it simply just works.

    I am still running Windows 10 22H2 here - even on brand new cutting edge 2024 hardware - simply because it does not contain the baggage within Win 11.

    I plan to run v2.9.6 right up until NI finally achieves feature parity with KKv3 - but who knows if that will ever happen.

    The bottom line is everything ages out - whether we like it or not. It is on us to maintain stability and we own the risk of running something that the vendor has already stated will never see another update.

    If Mark is worried about what may happen in the future with v2.9.6 - he should probably just move to KK v3 and let NI take the wheel and stop worrying about this at all.

    VP

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