Libraries won't load in Kontakt 6 anymore
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If NI sort of does "force updates" to their libraries so they'd only run in K7 anymore, there should be a BIG red flag somewhere, ideally inside Native Access. Anything else is totally inacceptable. But that seems to be the new standard for NI.
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@Vocalpoint Oh my, really? I thought Studio One to be one of the most classic DAW-style, but easy-to-use and forward-thinking DAWs besides Live and Bitwig. I had no idea they could make life this hard by crumpling each and every plugin update. It's impossible to work like that; fans of said developer who switches IDs like his underwear also recommended to simply save all versions of the dev's plugins. But that would make anyone copy files back and forth regularly. I now understand you being so careful when updates are released.
I certainly didn't only experience bug-free updates from other companies—but nothing ever so major as this K6 affair. Even Ableton's beta versions and Microsoft bleeding-edge Insider Previews have given me almost no trouble at all, while I expected all kinds of issues. I feel for you, and here's to Presonus un-f*cking their DAW to allow for seamless plugin updates. Jeez!
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Studio One does not compromise updates to existing plugins (thankfully) - but when one goes from Neutron 3 to Neutron 4 (for example) Or Kontakt 6 to Kontakt 7 - get ready for shrapnel.
And a Advil sandwich.
VP
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But that's not the same. When you also install, say, Neutron 3, old projects will still load fine. When you however load old projects using updated Kontakt libraries, they won't load. That's an absolute no-go.
If at all, give me an updated library version in addition.0 -
That would be way too logical.
I do remain baffled as to how the powers that be thought this was not going to cause major upheaval.
Or….Maybe they did?
Maybe they thought - "It will be easier (and cheaper) for us to "manage" our way through this hassle factor by offloading "the solution" to the user - get them to download the "old" versions of any compromised libraries, get them to waste their time uninstalling/reinstalling and setting their old K6 instances straight - rather than recoding Native Access to play traffic cop for them".
VP
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You could simply not update. Who's to say you have to use your MK3 hardware to its full extent and have the latest version of a library or app/plugin 😀.
Well, that's normal behaviour in any DAW, and has nothing to do with what I described above. When you're upgrading to a new plugin version from a developer, you'd usually either get backwards-compatible files replacing the old plugins, or as with iZotope, completely new plugins that live side-by-side with your older versions. Just as with Kontakt 6 and 7 in general.
Now, what I described were minor bug-fix updates from a dev that decided to change the underlying IDs of his plugins on the go. You never get to see those IDs, but DAWs cling to them to know what plugin is being referenced in a project. So a plugin named 'Compressor' from company A wouldn't get confused with a 'Compressor' plugin by company B, even though they are shown with the same name in your DAW's browser. At the same time, if you installed multiple versions of the same plugin (with different IDs, as the dev decided), your DAW would only index and offer one of the versions. So you can't have multiple versions of one plugin installed, leveraging the plugin-not-found error that resulted from the different plugin IDs.
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Right on point, thanks!
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Well - they only work fine - if I want to install Neutron 3. (assuming my DAW/Studio One version still supports Neutron 3)
But if I have Neutron 4 now - I do NOT want to install Neutron 3.
Ideally I want to stay current and have my projects move through time without a hassle factor. (like plugin IDs changing).
What I really want - is to be asked - WHEN I open an old project - "This project contains a old plugin reference to Neutron 3 - would you like to use Neutron 4 in this project?" And click Yes and see where I stand.
And yes - I totally understand the Kontakt thing too. Should never have happened. But in Studio One - this hassle is duplicated - NOT only will I get Plugin Not found - if Kontakt 6 is uninstalled - when I put it back - I get the double whammy of being informed that the library I am now loading makes my Kontakt too "old".
A guy cannot win here.
VP
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What you are describing is unfortunately the default behaviour for old vs. new major versions of plugins (unless devs make them explicitly backwards-compatible, as described above). I understand you can't possibly always stay backwards-compatible and 'null' new features for older versions of plugins, so they still sound the same. Often, developers re-write their code base to optimise performance and introduce new features, usually not possible with previous code. Having the comparable minor hassle of having to install old and new (major) plugin versions side-by-side is tolerable for me. Locking libraries and rendering them invalid for older versions is against any mindful way of handling your own software versions.
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Not if you use Cubase. And Nuendo. And Logic etc.
These DAWs do offer migration and they do allow their users to move their plugins through time easily. Even Kontakt :)
Also - installing umpteen versions of the same plugin (side by side) might work for me as a Windows user but not if your DAW OS or DAW app version does now allow it (looking at you Mac folks).
I do wish that I at least had a choice - let me decide if the "sound" is not the same or the code in incompatible etc etc.
Putting up a huge red X when opening an older project that contains some missing stuff - is like a finger wag in my general direction and is not a solution.
VP
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It's the first time I'm hearing of auto-transitioning major plugin versions to their successors in DAWs. How would e.g. Cubase know that Neutron 3 is the predecessor of Neutron 4? As I said earlier, plugin devs often add or change controls (parameter names) from one major version to another, or completely re-write their code, not too rarely introducing changes to the sound. I'm not happy with having installed loads of legacy plugins for my old projects, but I see that it's unavoidable. Otherwise, I'd uninstall and re-install them when needed.
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I could of course not update. But beforehand, I'd simply like to know that the update would simply kill backwards compatibility. Sure, it's in the release notes. But it's hidden. And in case there's compatibility issues, that's just inacceptable.
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Not sure on the "how" - only that they do.
Seen many a discussion on here about this.
So if Cubase can do it - I am hoping someday that Studio One could do it.
Given the smarts of most of these companies in 2024 - this should be a no-brainer.
I mean Studio One could simply post up a dialog when installing a new version of say - Neutron - and simply ask "Previous version of this plugin already installed. Do you want to associate these versions for existing projects?" and click Yes.
And then when I do open an old project and Neutron 3 is NOT installed anymore - the project could post up - "Newer version of Neutron detected. Load this version for this project" and click Yes.
Now this is just me spitballing of course - but this is not rocket science.
It just needs some thought put into it and action put behind it.
VP
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Well, but at least you could install both Neuron 3 and 4. With the updated libraries, there's no such options.
And fwiw, when I installed Komplete on my new Macbook, things were installed without any further notice anyway. In other words: NI just expected me to install K7 and also expected me to be happy with older projects not recalling 1:1 anymore.That's just a royally messed up approach. To put it mildly.
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I was just joking. Of course, what's the sense in paying for software when you have to be on guard for potential trouble and not update it? I'd also have expected to be explicitly informed that I can't open any of those libraries in K6 anymore.
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