Has NI Lost It's Way?

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  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 456 Guru

    We're not bound by economics, logic, feasibility, etc. Come on NI! Make a perpetual motion maschine! Are you even trying?!?

  • Percivale
    Percivale Member Posts: 230 Pro

    I'll try a different pitch. After the mega threads such as the one on [Culture] and [Direction - this one], often these dont conclude so could it be that people just wanted to express themselves and bounce ideas, feedback and viewpoints but not so much looking into the content itself? If true, then letting these mega threads pan out is a good way to keep members engaged.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru
    edited February 2024

    I don't know of any VST plugin that can talk directly to a MIDI keyboard, but that would be pretty cool if one existed. For me it's either Ableton Live or KK, feels like splitting hairs at that point.

    Or are you wanting everything like Arturia where each instrument is standalone? I see pros and cons for each approach.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 807 Expert
    edited February 2024

    MIDI 2.0 will enable new bidirectional communications between the MIDI controller and the sound source. Basically the equivalent of NKS, if you will. We just need more time for MIDI 2.0 to really start catching on.

    For me personally, I prefer controllers which do not become doorstops as soon as you unplug them from a computer. When NI released the Z2 mixer, I instabought it. Here was a Traktor controller that also functioned as a standalone DJ mixer when not running Traktor. Made the dumb controllers look like ticking time bombs.

    Same way I feel about my Maschine+. It will still keep working aftert NI EOL's support for MK3 family controllers from Maschine 5.0

    No company will ever be supporting their "legacy" controllers indefinitely, if they are also releasing new ones. Maintaining functionality of stuff across ever updating computer OSes requires money to be spent. A company cannot, and will not be endlessly spending money to support the functionality of their legacy products ad infinitum, they will always prioritize the new shiny stuff. It is only logical.

  • MaikR
    MaikR Member Posts: 377 Guru

    Totally agree. It’s people that make an organization. Also its culture and the way they set and pursue the(ir) goals. So its paths will change, too.

    This process accelerates once again as leadership changes. New kind of objectives or targets, new direction. This can even influence the core values ​​so much that people leave.

    In that sense, NI has lost its way.

    I work in the B2B market myself. When we change our behavior as an organization so significantly, customer organizations will notice this. They also consist of people, people who make decisions. That happens slowly, often bottom up. But once the decision maker(s) notice the change in behavior, they will respond.

    Of course, a change of course may be desirable and the departure of customers is considered an accepted loss. Especially when new types of customers/users come forward.

    But all this does not alter the fact that an organization must continue to behave reliably and decently... and I have increasing doubts about this in the case of NI. Just like with the lack of capacity and quality to make the new (?) course a success. There is also such a thing as a good name… or a damaged reputation.

    Trust in NI as a supplier is what I currently lack. For example the way they communicate about Maschine and Traktor is a big red flag for me. The same applies to introducing half-baked subscription services, only to be able to kill them just as easily. Unreliable behavior.

    So maybe I’m not their type of customer anymore, but if they (or the shareholders) aim for continuous growth, they don't just need passers-by but fans. And that is increasingly lacking. So I think they better get back on track.

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 682 Guru
    edited February 2024

    Just the same way their Kontakt works now, it talks to Mk3 keyboards directly, both as standalone and as a plugin in a DAW.

  • ozon
    ozon Member Posts: 1,911 Expert

    @tetsuneko

    No company will ever be supporting their "legacy" controllers indefinitely, if they are also releasing new ones. Maintaining functionality of stuff across ever updating computer OSes requires money to be spent. A company cannot, and will not be endlessly spending money to support the functionality of their legacy products ad infinitum, they will always prioritize the new shiny stuff. It is only logical.

    Not if they offer updates for a fee. Never underestimate the economic power of the installed base. But it seems to be something that is not in the scope for many companies.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    I guess I'm confused because you said that KK is unnecessary, but now it seems you're fine with Kontakt?

    Those programs serve two different purposes as far as I understand.

    So I guess I don't understand why using Kontakt ok, but Komplete Kontrol unnecessary?

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,787 Expert
    edited February 2024

    Yes. This is how the whole industry works.

    They bring novelties and make you (correctly) pay for it.

    The real difference is in some cases this is done in a good way (“we have the new Studio One 6. You can buy it/update to it or continue with the Studio One 5 version you paid for. But if you come to Studio One 6, we give you this, this and that new functionalities”. “We have Ableton 12….”. Darn…even “We have Komplete 14….”).

    This is what makes companies work on and introduce really new, appealing, innovative functionalities, in order to interest their customers in moving forward with them.

    In some other cases, the less crystalline strategy is to find a way to make what we already have not usable anymore. So you have to move on with them even if you are not interested in the not so new, not so appealing, not so innovative functionalities of the new version…

    The risk for them is that, since you have to move anyway, you will move even further…to a different company offering what you are searching for…

    The best solution they found (for them) is the subscription model: they can offer little to none regarding novelties and you’ll have to pay them anyway, in order to even be able to use anything

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 682 Guru
    edited February 2024

    NI Kontakt is something I use, a sample player with nice libraries. I make music with it.

    Komplete Kontrol is a wrapper, an intermediary between the controller and plugin, so that the controller can talk to plugins and vice versa. It does not serve any other purpose (well, it is a librarian also). In ideal life, this should not be needed, Mk3 controller should talk directly to plugin (like it does with Kontakt, since Mk3 series was released). I want other plugins to do what Kontakt does, to talk directly to Mk3 controllers, thus eliminating the need to use KK all together.

    Imagine you install, let’s say, U-He Diva in your DAW and it sees the controller, everything is mapped, you can browse the patches from Mk3, Lightguide works, all WITHOUT the need for KK.

    There is a communication protocol which Kontakt uses to talk to Mk3 series directly. It’s proprietary at the moment, other plugin vendors have no access to it. I would love for NI to open up that protocol so that other plugins can use it, too. I recall @Matthew_NI was asked about it and did not say “no” outright, so there is hope 😜

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    I get what you're saying, but it's like if I have to open a DAW... then what does it matter if I have to open Komplete Kontrol or Kontakt too, I don't see the difference.

    It's open your DAW then Kontakt, instead of what you're asking for which is open your DAW?

  • Maciej Repetowski
    Maciej Repetowski Member Posts: 682 Guru
    edited February 2024

    If you just use KK for playing on a keyboard, I understand. Then you use it as live performance tool, standalone.

    But when you want to record what you play or actually make a track using many different plugins (virtual instruments) - you will need a DAW.

    So when you record with DAW and each plugin you use needs to be wrapped into KK, to be able to talk to Mk3 controller, it adds a layer of unnecessary complexity. So you end up, let’s say, with 20 tracks, each with an instance of KK on it and a plugin wrapped inside. Why should this be needed?

    I will ask you: what is the purpose of Komplete Kontrol software and why it is needed to communicate with the controller? Why plugins can’t talk to Mk3 keyboards directly, like Kontakt does?

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    Ahhh I see what you're saying, that makes a lot of sense. It's the same with Kontakt thought isn't it? If you want to assign a Kontakt instrument to channel 1 in your DAW and another one playing a different instrument, different notes, wouldn't you have to open another instance of Kontakt on channel 2? Or is there a fancy way to not have to do that?

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 456 Guru

    kontakt is multitimbral.

    Probably not significant for most people. I'd only load multiple libraries in kontakt if I'm layering stuff or if I'm using my computer as a fancy rompler for an external sequencer (i.e. M+)

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 848 Guru

    So then in your DAW how does that translate? You have one channel with all the Kontakt instruments and then multiple MIDI channels routing their output to the Kontakt channel?

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