Has NI Lost It's Way?
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Btw: GeoShred is BY Jordan Rudess…a “guy” who wants to have something innovative and working how he would like and therefore decided to start a company to make apps in a different way.
Yes…luckily someone out there still wants to make things progress…
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I really feel like @LostInFoundation there, that tech stack explanation was used for the fact that the KK Mk2 displays (the same as MAS Mk2) won’t support NKS2, wasn‘t it? Will probably be the same with MAS Mk4. And while there must be good arguments for these new dedicated graphics chip, I‘m really not sure how this will play out. Obviously to instead render even animated graphics from the computer is still a viable approach, see Push 2 and 3. Now we have two different NKS versions with so many existing keyboards only supporting the older one. Which somehow only achieved to confuse me instead of making me want to have one…
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Yep.. this strategy of making NKS2 an "on-device only" feature is disappointing.
Needlessly constrained.
Same with the future of Play Assist.
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I will probably be the first one in the line passing the night in a sleeping bag outside the door of the shop waiting for the opening time (or better…the second guy in the line…D-One will probably be there from 2 days before, with his sleeping bag and a bottle for the human physiological necessities, having had some internal leaks before anyone else 😂).
AHAHH! I am deeply offended, I shall ban you now!
It would take a lot of sw improvement for me to be on that line, I don't care much about HW improvement, the Mk3/M+ is fine as is HW-wise to me, sure a bigger fancy screen like the S-mk3 would be nice, but not nice enough for me to spend 800-1200$ especially if its rushed out like most recent releases. So... I'd agree with the overall sentiment of the rest of your comment.
Oh, I see... It's about NKS2.
I have to admit, I find it quite confusing aswell. Yes, I guess that is a likely possibility for (a future) MAS-MK4 unless they decide that for some reason doing the processing on the computer is fine for the Maschine side, doubt it tho.
Not sure if that falls into "needlessly constrained" or "planned obsolescence" or those other things that often come up... The 'stack' really is night and day, the S-MK3 has a proper Linux OS inside, for what NKS2 does now I don't think its brains needed to be that fancy but I believe it's preparation for what's to come - On-Screen-Feeback, possibly being a host instead of just a client (so say some Ytubers that had early access), etc... I do understand how tech-stack sounds like an excuse but being devil's advocate for a sec, I don't think it is... Still, a hard pill to swallow. An M+ has a much faster and more complicated OS so it should handle it fine, MK3's and previous models probably not.
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Not sure if that falls into "needlessly constrained" or "planned obsolescence" or those other things that often come up... The 'stack' really is night and day, the S-MK3 has a proper Linux OS inside, for what NKS2 does now I don't think its brains needed to be that fancy but I believe it's preparation for what's to come.
There are a couple of very interesting points for speculative discussion in this paragraph.
First, IF the new „tech stack“ is not capable to support the current or even the previous generation of hardware (S-MK2, MAS Mk2) it is either very badly designed or incompatible on purpose. All previous NI hardware is „dumb“ by design and therefore should not put any requirements or restrictions on a controlling software which can not be handled by any new „tech stack“ if properly designed. It only requires a modular approach with layers and adapters, which is very common in contemporary designs.
Now, applying in dubio pro reo, let’s assume NI did neither, and the new technology is actually capable to support previous hardware, then there might be very different plans ahead regarding the use of a Linux based computer inside the new generation of controllers. Like extended standalone capabilities ranging from live MIDI event routing and processing over classic arpeggiators and sequencers to AI based playing assistants.
The Future of Sound.
🌈🦄🤩
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First, IF the new „tech stack“ is not capable to support the current or even the previous generation of hardware (S-MK2, MAS Mk2) it is either very badly designed or incompatible on purpose. All previous NI hardware is „dumb“ by design and therefore should not put any requirements or restrictions on a controlling software which can not be handled by any new „tech stack“ if properly designed. It only requires a modular approach with layers and adapters, which is very common in contemporary designs.
Interesting, couldn't the same be said for products supporting Win 7, Win XP, Win95 or tons of MacOS versions? Sure it's possible, but is it practical long term? From a user observation standard point, it seems often something older needs to be broken to move forward and efficiently develop or you just keep piling onto old tech resulting in a very messy codebase. Not making excuses tho, just saying...
On the other hand, the idea that S-mk2 couldn't move forward due to hw tech limitations also implies it was poorly planned. I'm guessing someone feels like that was a mistake and the future of similar devices it's to have actual decent chips and an OS inside. Personally, I feel like this stuff would hurt a lot less if there was at least a transition: mk1 not be supported at all while an MK2 would have at least partial support for a few years.
then there might be very different plans ahead regarding the use of a Linux based computer inside the new generation of controllers. Like extended standalone capabilities ranging from live MIDI event routing and processing over classic arpeggiators and sequencers to AI based playing assistants.
Now you're confusing me...
Why would one change the tech stack significantly if there are no "different plans ahead" ? That would be like Apple moving to their own silicon for no improvements at all, wouldn't in that case... just be them wasting their own time and getting tons of angry users for no reason? @reffahcs shared some internals Smk3 pictures, there's USB OTG there, why would you have a Host mode on a device if you don't have any plans to make the keyb have host capabilities? AKA Smart Play and all that you mentioned without being tethered to a computer.... ???
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The decisions on what to support and what not and for how long are usually only made due to projected profit or lack of it.
99% of time the hardware is capable and the software can be made compatible with anything but the time and effort or priorities do not justify the expense, sadly.
No same company will say it outright, though 😜
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Now, applying in dubio pro reo, let’s assume NI did neither, and the new technology is actually capable to support previous hardware, then there might be very different plans ahead regarding the use of a Linux based computer inside the new generation of controllers. Like extended standalone capabilities ranging from live MIDI event routing and processing over classic arpeggiators and sequencers to AI based playing assistants.
Offering such extended standalone capabilities only within the confines of the on-device features would be doubly stupid for NI to do.
First... the human decision-making and interaction with such extended capabilities begs even more for the superior size of the desktop display and speed/agility of desktop QWERTY and trackpad/mouse. To actively prevent their use would be very anti-user.
Second...the killing blow to any notion that future extended capabilities would include hosting in the Kontrol S-Mk3 controllers is the fact that they do not have audio converters. Case closed on that thought.
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As I understand the tech stack, they also unified things under the hood.
They had to rework existing products or functions in order to get a more shared framework and not maintain different bricks doing more or less the same thing. As it costs a lot in experience required, quality acceptance, support...
If it's true, it's a good thing because it implies a true vision for the future
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Couldn’t disagree with you more, my friend.
Just ask unhappy Mk1 users why having all functionality in software only is a bad idea, they will gladly tell you.
No one talks about making Mk3 keyboards hosting platforms, like M+. I think it’s more about using on device CPU/AI for harmony generation, polyrhythms, generative sequencing, realtime melody enrichment and so on (just a few speculative examples, of course). Having this executed in hardware makes it software/DAW independent and future proof. And it doesn’t take anything from your experience with KK on big screen, so worry not.
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No, you continue to not address the point I am making.
The user experience with KK on the big screen is severely compromised. It cannot be used for anything NKS2 or Play Assist related. Those exciting new capabilities are purposely being kept off of the desktop environment. How can this be a good thing?
And some people ARE speculating that the Mk3 keyboards could become hosting platforms. They dream of a standalone NI workstation....
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And thoughts of AI interaction within the on-device features of the S-Mk3 is utter nonsense.
No QWERTY input. No means to drag/drop an audio example into a "match" window.
Utter nonsense to think the S-Mk3 hardware is a satisfying design for AI-assisted interaction.
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Why? Do you think if that functionality is on hardware, it will be removed from KK software?
Cause now, Play Assist and NKS2 is only available through KK, exactly as you like it.
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@Matthew_NI stated this in the AMA: Kontrol S-Series Mk3:
For the Arpeggiator, it's somewhat of a similar story, but with more nuance. Today, there is Play Assist in Komplete Kontrol. There is also Play Assistance type stuff in a number of our 1st or 3rd party instruments. It's not uncommon for a piece of content to contain an Arp or Sequencer. At NI, we are thinking about the role of Play Assistance across our product line holistically. Not to say it will become homogenous, but at least designed with more cohesion across the product lines.
Step 1 is to get the existing Play Assist into the MK3 keyboard standalone starting this year (we would not remove it from KK for users of older hardware).
Step 2 is to improve what Play Assist is capable of in general
Step 3 is to bring those capabilities into our product lines to varying degrees
It is very likely you'd continue to find that content products contain scales and arps and whatnot, separately to the keyboard, because we're thinking of the keyboard as a standalone, expressive MIDI generative instrument the more time passes.
So if Steps 2 & 3 are developed as being dependent upon the on-device CPU/OS, can we expect to see those new capabilities to exist in KK software without a S-Series Mk3 keyboard attached?
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Ok got it. I think those should be available both in hardware and software, if for nothing else then at least, for added flexibility.
Will they be? I have no idea.
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