I hope NI treats Reaktor like they treat Guitar Rigs
Comments
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The fact is this:
I seriously doubt that all those people who ask for features and updates have even used the 1/1000 of its possibilities... I know serious professionals who are dealing with Reaktor for over 15 years and still learning and still there are lots of options and possibilities that they have never use.
The only thing that Reaktor really needs, is a vector-like graphical interface which will make every ensemble to auto-adjust according to each user's screen.
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I agree they want people to use it but i am not convinced there will be any developement in terms of features,improvements etc. Maybe a bug fix here and there,it certainly feels like they call up the team to work on something only when essential.
And like some said,of course you can do tons of things with it still but i remember very interesting discussions with the most knowledgeable minds here "most of them gone by now" on how to improve things,make it better. Could have been nice...
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I still think NI could revitalize a lot of the Reaktor community by spending some more resources on up to date documentation and tutorials. These are the things Reaktor needs the most IMHO, not new features or more bloat. The largest untapped potential in Reaktor is its considerable userbase, most of whom just download and use existing content because the idea of doing it yourself in Reaktor is "too steep a learning curve" for them. A single "rockstar" tier Youtube influecer who gets a following building fun stuff and making tutorials for Reaktor could revitalize the scene immensely
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I completely agree with everyone's views on Reaktor. It does not require significant updates, but I think it can be faster in the workflow. For example, connecting can be more convenient, rather than connecting one by one. It is best to achieve a connection of multiple or multiple simultaneous connections
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Pretty happy not to be tempted into paying for a new Reaktor version tbh. It's pretty powerful as is. Agree that it could have improved documentation though.
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For how MAX is used in Live, REAKTOR is basically analogous with it. I'm not sure I would buy REAKTOR if I were a Live (Standard or Suite - it's the same price to add Max onto Live Standard) or Bitwig user. You can Build Instruments, FX, Sequencers, Samplers and MIDI Processors in both Max, REAKTOR and The Grid.
I think REAKTOR is great in that it can serve as the Max for Everyone Else.
I think NI can treat it the way Ableton treats Max. Basically, they add features as needed, but otherwise it mainly gets bug fixes and compatibility updates. I think that's fine.
I do think they could invest a little in more educational resources on YouTube, and maybe create some Template Projects to get newbies onto the Learning Path to grow the ecosystem and better facilitate growing the user community.
For what REAKTOR is intended for, I do think it's fairly feature complete, so I don't understand why some people are looking for massive upgrades. I think the only major thing it needs, is improvements to the UI. Even still, I don't think the UI is any worse than Max for Live, so...
I do think Native Instruments should consider creating their own DAW - like Universal Audio Has - or moving Maschine substantially in that direction and integrating their platforms into a single unified solution.
I also think they should have integrated the User Library into REAKTOR 6. Lots of people who own REAKTOR don't even know it exists.
The documentation is pretty okay. I think the biggest gripe I have is that it's split between REAKTOR 5 Documentation and REAKTOR 6 Documentation. They really should just go through and tidy that up so that there is just one set of REAKTOR 6 Documentation.
Also, the documentation should be standard letter size PDF Documents. Not sure why people think the square PDFs are a good idea.
I do think using REAKTOR optimally requires a DAW that allows loading it as [all] Instrument (REAKTOR 6), FX (REAKTOR 6 FX) and a MIDI FX, though. Logic Pro, Samplitude Pro X (X7 and above) and Pro Tools can do the latter, but many other DAWs cannot. Maybe a few others do this that I am not familiar with.
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Good afternoon.
I work with Reaktor and Maschine 2.0 along with Jam, Reaktor with TRK0, Molekular, the people at Toybox, everything. Now I'm thinking about expanding.
How was your experience with Razor and Rounds?
About Max, I don't want to change my environment, I don't feel comfortable in Live.
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Besides that, the educational literature for Max/MSP is leagues ahead of Reaktor's Documentation. Ni want us to do their work for them & build cool instruments/FX for one another, but they don't seem to want to teach us how to actually use the application. I'm 260 pages into Electronic Music and Sound Design right now, and have learned a lot more about how DSP, computer programming, math, etc. all tie together than I was able to glean from Reaktor's various Primary or Core Tutorials.
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I haven't read the Max/MSP documentation, but for me, the Reaktor manuals were all I needed to dive right in and build some stuff. Here is a link to my very first Reaktor Project… not amazing, but I got it to work :)
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/3603/
NI have tried to educate us. A while back, Vadim, the guy who invented core, ran a filter design workshop on the forum, the participation numbers were shamefully low. He's also written a book and published a whole bunch of technical DSP papers. I learned how to build ZDF filters from the book.
NI also published papers based on work by Efflam Le Bivic, one of their graphic designers, who invented a new anti-aliasing technique. This is stuff that could have been kept as a trade secret, but instead, they gave us a basic tutorial, an example Block, and then later a more in depth academic research paper. I've got an awful lot of mileage from this technique, it's amazing!
There are a few areas where the manuals are maybe limited, but NI have been involved in 3rd party development that covers at least some of these. e.g. in the Partials framework documentation, there is information about potential issues with event synchronisation due to processes being on different threads, and how to manage that.
There could be more info on initialisation too, but in general, the stuff that's lacking is advanced, and when you get to the level where you need that knowledge, you probably have the resources to work it out by reverse engineering other folks stuff, and you will learn a lot more from that. Also just asking here will likely get you the answers you need.
The only thing I think they got wrong was the decision to bin the massive archive of useful Reaktor knowledge that was posted on the old forum. There was a LOT of great info there with long threads on various topics that will never happen again, and involved some exceptional contributors who are not active any more (including that filter design workshop). That stuff filled all the gaps that may have existed in the official docs, and it's all gone (for now anyway).
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If you're not already into programming, mathematics, and/or DSP, all of that stuff is going to be "greek" to you. That's my point. An academic paper about how to build a ZDF filter isn't going to help someone who a.) doesn't know what one is, b.) doesn't know how/why they'd use it, c.) doesn't understand the math or science behind it yet.
There are far more resources for learning Max/MSP that will help you break down these disparate fields and bring them together to make synths and FX. I find myself making and reinforcing all sorts of connections between programming, DSP, and math all at once by doing these exercises. That's the difference. NI need to make resources available that will turn someone who knows nothing about math, computer programming, or sound design into a pro. The primary tutorials/documentation feels pretty superficial and the Core documentation just expects you to be a DSP nerd already.1 -
Understanding the math behind a ZDF filter is platform agnostic.
You don't need platform centric tutorials on specifics like ZDF filters, or band limited impulse trains, or granular FX engines, or FDN reverbs, or basic polysynth topology, or what a VCA or an oscillator is, or whatever else.
You need a viable platform (like Reaktor, or Max or whatever else) and manuals explaining the basic fundamentals of how to use that platform.
Then you can go and learn about those other things from anywhere you like, then with the Platform specific skills you have learned from the platform manuals, you can implement and/or use those other things.
The Reaktor manuals are perfectly adequate in that respect!
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I agree that the documentation and learning resources for Max are way ahead of Reaktor. Max/MSP has been taught in many academic institutions for decades now, Reaktor doesnt have nearly as much going for it in this dept. Which is a shame, because I always had the feeling that Reaktor stuff is more CPU efficient than Max, ie has better real-world performance
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Having platform-centric tutorials still helps a broad swathe of people that you and NI's "the current documentation is fine" are neglecting with your line of thinking. And honestly, if the documentation were adequate, the user library would be a bigger deal than it is. We'd have far more "user blocks" programmers other than just Toybox and Euroreakt. How is it that VCV Rack has more user-contributed modules than Reaktor, despite being around for only a fraction of the time? They must make it really easy for interested parties to get started in developing their own modules.
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I don't know enough to actually compare the two, but I did a senior project in college w/ a Reaktor patch that was the equivalent of "some dude's noise table" that only hit 30% or less on my 2016 Thinkpad w/ an i5 & 8GB. I think it was 8-tracks w/ vocal FX chain & looper (a distortion/bitcrusher, an ambiguous delay tool I called the phacoranger, a tape delay, Sustain/freeze) and the reaktor equivalent to some DIY harsh noise boxes. (8-harmonic drones that were tunable, bitcrushed noisegenerator, etc.)
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TL/DR: Reaktor is relatively easy, and the manuals tell you all you need to know to get started. Developing original bespoke high quality digital musical instruments and effects is very difficult, so is original compelling sound design. It's important not to get these things mixed up, and to have realistic expectations!
…and don't believe the hype :-D
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One reason is precisely because everyone wants to learn by using 'paint by numbers' tutorials, but those are not going to get you there, you can build as many cookie cutter projects as you like, but they won't teach you what you actually need to know to really design your own stuff. You need to dive in and explore for yourself, and at some point you need to bite the bullet and learn the math, software engineering and sound engineering stuff required. That stuff is 95% or more of what you really need to learn.
A 'how to make your own filter Block' vid can't ever give you enough information to actually develop a unique filter, either is ends up with everyone making the same generic filter that is a wrapper for a factory filter module, or it has significant and prohibitive expectations about existing levels of knowledge.
Another example might be something like an ILO anti-aliased clipper. I could put out a 'wire together these modules in Reaktor and use these value for the constants' type vid, and you could build it in a few minutes and it would work, yay, but you would never be able to then go and make a different clipper with the same technique based only on that tutorial, because the important parts are done in wolfram alpha (or your math app of choice), and some math knowledge is required to work through that part. The Reaktor part is EASY! the math part, not so much, so the important thing to focus on to learn this stuff is the math part. The Reaktor manual really does teach everything you need to know to do the Reaktor part.
I could go and write a tutorial on the Math part, that would actually help you learn how to do it for yourself, but that would be redundant, it already exists! (and is way better than I could do)… but it's not a 'paint by numbers' Reaktor tutorial vid, so that's no good right?
When Blocks came out there were LOADS of new blocks being uploaded to the UL, but many were just wrappers, and that just isn't the same level as bespoke DSP.
If you do have the math/DSP and put in the work to build commercial quality DSP, Reaktor is not as attractive as e.g. VCVRack, because NI chose to make licencing for 3rd parties a hefty up-front payment which makes it quite a risk from a new side-business POV, and unless you do pay big up front, there is no protection for your Reaktor code, you can't lock it, and it can be easily shared and copied.
If NI had gone with a free to access shop type of thing, and just taken a cut of profits, there would be way way more 3rd party commercial stuff on there. But then I guess most of it would be fancy looking wrappers around vanilla factory modules, built based on cookie cutter tutorials… so :)
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I totally get that not everyone wants to design their own unique filters or waveshapers, most folk are more focussed on music and sound design, so for them it might be more important to learn how to wire up existing library oscillators, shapers, filters etc. But IMO the same issues exist.
If you really want to understand enough to truly design your own sounds from scratch, then cookie cutter structures wont be enough. You need to learn about the physics of sound and the related DSP and math. Sure, you can build an ensemble from a tutorial and hack away making a few changes here and there to give you a feeling of ownership. But the real thing is coming up with an idea, then developing that with no compromise, from scratch. Most of the knowledge you need for that is platform agnostic, and you can't learn it from a few half hour videos. The best sources by far are academia, and technical forums where DSP folk discuss math and programming.
The modern mentality of 'just give me a half hour youtube tutorial already' might be what has weakened Reaktors position in the market. The philosophy behind Reaktor is just not compatible with that modern approach to 'learning'. Too many folk just have unrealistic expectations and feel entitled to results right now. They don't want to explore and discover, they want to be shown what to do, do it, and tick it off as done.
I think this mentality is maybe part of why Reaktor is not being supported or developed as actively these days by NI, folk really want quick easy results, and for that, stuff like Kontakt packs are way better, and more lucrative. Reaktor's USP is the fact that you can build completely original devices with it, but if folk are just copying the same old things from the same old tutorials, they will never get there, and will eventually give up and go back to Kontakt anyway.
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"They must make it really easy for interested parties to get started in developing their own modules."
They do, the manuals have everything you need to 'get started' well presented and easy to follow.
I think the problem here is that getting started is easy, but after that, the learning curve is steep and difficult, because this stuff is deep and extremely challenging. There are no shortcuts. It's definitely worth all the effort, but it's also really important for beginners to understand that it requires a significant commitment, and it will be very difficult. Anyone who tells you that they will 'make it really easy' is a liar!
(just to be clear, Reaktor is easy, developing original bespoke digital musical instruments and effects is very difficult)
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